Phenyl Manufacturing Problems & Solutions

A. I had personally never heard of this product until your inquiry, Aravind, but the Madhya Pradesh government web site at www.mp.nic.in/mpindustry/project/2l/chemical.htm describes it as a disinfectant which is an emulsion of light creosote oil or pine oil and water with soap. The page also describes basically how it's made.

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Ed. note May 2010: Sorry, but that URL no longer works.

Q. DEAR MR. RAO,
WE SAW YOUR ENQUIRY ON FINISHING.COM , WE ARE BASED IN NEPAL AND WE ALSO WANT BLACK PHENYLE FORMULATION. HOPE YOU WILL HELP US WITH THE FORMULA.
REGARDS,

Q. Sir,
I need the answer to above letter.

A. It's a normal problem in manufacturing it; it's not a matter of worry. Please mix the water and concentrate very slowly; for example, if you are mixing one liter concentrate with 10 liter water then take one liter concentrate and add a few water then mix the concentrate very slowly again add few water and mix it properly then slowly add a little water then again mix the concentrate. You will get thick white color concentrate and then add water again; this is the procedure.

A. The response to the query from Rajeshwari, Mysore:

You can add some amount of gum acacia and stir well during manufacturing of this emulsion. The deposition of oil on the top will be emulsified into the aqueous phenyl.

A. Dear Sir

Reference Ms Rajeswari, Mysore, problem of oil separation.
Many manufacturers use various perfumery oils for this purpose; in most cases these oils are not emulsified properly to mix homogeneously into the solution.
As such, the oil separation.

A. I could not identify "phenyle" and there are thousands of compounds with phenyl in the name. However, from the disinfectant usage, my guess is that you are referring to phenol, CAS#108-95-2. An MSDS https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/96380.htm indicates a severe health hazard which can cause death; exposure routes include skin absorption and inhalation (limit is 5 ppm for 8 hrs). I expect this use is banned in the US and other western nations.

A. Hi. Phenyle is/was a disinfectant emulsion based on pine oil or creosote oil, water, and soap; there may be other ingredients in it. A lot of info about the ingredients and manufacturing process is on these pages.

It was used in the 1920's in Australia and maybe elsewhere, and eBay occasionally has embossed glass bottles reading "Phenyle" and "Kitchen's" on them. You can google for those two words and maybe learn more of the history. A similar product is still manufactured in India. However, sorry, I don't know what would be involved in getting import/export permissions.

Regards,

Hi, Mohammad; hi, Sharad. We'd all like the "exact process" to manufacture Coca-Cola as well as phenyl, but none of us will meet with success because a successful competitor is not going to tell us exactly what he does, so that we can go into business against him and try to get his customers to buy from us instead. Sorry, it is never going to happen :-(

-- but if you ask for small tips, and you share camaraderie and a few tips of your own, your efforts will probably be fruitful. Best of luck!

A. Do add pine oil 1 liter maximum in 200 liters of phenyl; there won't be a smell of cutting oil surely.
Regards

This page is for public exchange of technical information. There are many open questions on the floor, and anyone who can answer any of them in non-commercial fashion is very welcome, please do.! Thanks :-)

A. Phenyle is a low value product. For quality product, phenyle manufacturing plant is a costly affair nowadays. Those who want to manufacture phenyle must sell it at least for a year in their own territory and they should start production only if they should feel that now their own production will help them to increase the sales. Then only they must start the production.

A. To make black phenyl we need
1 creosote oil
2 rosin
3 caustic
4 mcp [Mono Chloro Phenol]

The composition makes black phenyle

A. You are using TRO and pine oil but you need to use emulsifier to manufacture, and you need to use NP9 also along with pine and tro.

A. Use alphox 200 with TRO and make emulsifier, and then add pine oil.

! White phenyl Compound:

It's a raw material for preparation of white phenyl. You can add 1 liter phenyl compound with 10/15 liters of water mixture.

Alrighty then ...   :-)

If the way to make "white phenyl" is to dilute "white phenyl compound" by 10 or 15 to 1, let the question be rephrased as "How does one make 'white phenyl compound' "?   :-)

Regards,

Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey

A. Take 500 gram of castor oil, 500 grams of pine oil of 32% and mix both in a steel vessel, heat it with steam till till it gets very hot, take 10 grams of caustic and dissolve it in 100 ml water, pour the caustic solution in the mixture of castor/pine. heat it through steam until it turns dark brown and starts to become thick. Then let it cool down. Then add 200 grams of cutting oil and 100 grams of detol. The compound is ready.

najamuddin.hathiyari
- rajkot, India

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Thanks najamuddin!

Regards,

Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey

A. 1.First you test your water on water p.H. meter
2.Your water should be 80-170 in pH -- It is Hardness test [ed. note: there is an error here because pH scale only goes from 0-14; perhaps Satya means ppm, i.e., mg/l?)
3.If your water is hard you use PGN in Pine oil
4.1 liter 40 ml PGN
5.PGN works for softening the water, and create Hardness white phenyl.
6.Lastly I recommend please follow the formula a professional way.

With regards,

Q. WHAT IS THE FULL FORM OF PGN? AND Please SPECIFY THE QUANTITY WE NEED TO ADD IN ONE LITER COMPOUND TO AVOID OIL SEPARATION. IS THERE ANY OTHER WAY TO SOLVE THE OIL SEPARATION PROBLEM?

VISHAL SAXENA
- BHARATPUR, RAJASTHAN, India
November 3, 2012

A. Hi Vishal.

I can't answer your questions in full, but PGN is probably "Propylene glycol methyl ether acetate".

Regards,

Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey

A. Hi, Lalit. There have already been a good number of responses. Please try your best to cast your question in terms of what has already been said, so that the page doesn't just run in circles :-)

Sorry but this page is for public technical discussions; for a number of reasons we do not connect people privately (why?). Good luck.

Regards,

A. It is indication of excess pine oil.
Take proper measured t.r.o 1 part and 3 part of pine oil. Shake it uniformly for 5 minutes, the mixture must be in proper ratio,
Wait for 3 days, you will get good result.
Recently I heard there is one time introduced, if you have details, give full details

A. The Concentrate should be made with TRO not with cutting oil.The concentration of TRO and Pine/TOP should be clear.

A. Hi, Himmat.

There is already a lot of good information on this page. Good luck!
Please cast your question in terms of the answers that have already been provided. Starting over prevents any forward progress. Thanks!

Regards,

A. Hi, folks.

Earlier we summarized a report from the Madhya Pradesh government which said phenyle is a disinfectant emulsion made from light creosote oil or pine oil and water with soap.

Udden Maharjan says it's made from creosote oil, rosin, caustic and mcp [modified citrus pectin?].

A number of companies claim to sell the raw chemicals as a third possible starting point.

There's lots of info on this page.

Please don't try to take the discussion private -- it disenfranchises the other readers so is poor netiquette. If you offer consultation or products, you're welcome to advertise on this page or anywhere, but we're drowning in spam, and won't post any solicitations, testimonials, or contact info. Thanks for your understanding.

Regards,

A. Hi Anish. There are many books at libraries or available very inexpensively used which contain hundreds of formulas for cleaners. Good luck.

Luck & Regards,

A. I am Mr. Sudhirkumar from Bangalore, India. Normally phenyl is used as an disinfectant. Of note, phenyl is not considered as the best for health or for disinfecting. Now the Gold Standard is using BKC as an active ingredient which can kill HIV and H1N1 virus also.

Warm Regards, Sudhirkumar

A. Hi, Rajesh. We see that you are a student.

I'm sure you realize that in the real world nobody ever goes into business by building a factory they don't know how to build, to manufacture a product they're unfamiliar with, and which they don't know how to market. People always bring something to the party, whether it be a new manufacturing technology, a superior formulation, or great marketing skills :-)

There is already plenty of info on this thread that will allow you to pose a very convincing scenario for a great class project. Thanks.

Regards,

A. Hi, Moiz. I don't know what "green phenyl" is and whether it's any different from other phenyl except for a green tint. But phenyl is a proprietary commercial product available from many sources and I doubt that anyone would agree that someone else's formula is more perfect than their own. While awaiting responses, please review what's here already. Meanwhile there are numerous questions in front of yours which it looks like you are very capable of answering, and trying to teach is the fastest way to learn.
Good luck.

Regards,

WHITE PHENYLE MANUFACTURING PROCESS

NOTE: This is a Cold Process

Emulsifier OP-95 300 ml
Pine Oil 750 ml
Water 15 Liter (Recommended)
Process:
Pour OP-95 in a vessel.
Add Pine Oil slowly while stirring OP-95.
OP-95 & pine oil Compound must be transparent Clear Liquid. If Compound is not clear than add OP 95 and make it Clear.

Add Water slowly while stirring the mix of OP-95.

NOTE: IF you require perfume different than this (PINE OIL), you can use citronella.

During the whole process the stirring has to be maintained at a constant rate, up to 1 hour without interruption, which will result in a Milky White Phenyle.

Thanks, Shiv, that will help some people! But most aren't asking for mixing directions for the particular proprietary emulsifier which you distribute, but for more generic info about how to formulate   :-)

Regards,

Hi, Hitendra.

If there isn't enough info for you on this page, maybe it can't be answered within the realistic constraints of a public forum. But if you can ask multiple-choice questions, yes/no questions, or a question that can be answered in a one or two-paragraph essay, there is a good chance that they may be answered. Best of luck!

Regards,

A. We are a manufacturer of TRO. While preparing white phenyl confirm purity of TRO: it should be 70% & its pH should be neutral. Take 3 parts pine & 1 part TRO till you get clear transparent brown colour liquid. Take 9 liters water charge 1 liter of this concentrated mix to get 10 liters white phenyl. There will not be any problem of oil separation and fading of colour.
Regards,