WELDING FUMES FROM GALVANIZED METAL

A. Hi, Breanna. "Working with" is an awfully vague term, although what you are doing doesn't seem to have anything to do with zinc fume fever. Do you use any cyanide-bearing chemicals in your work? If not, do you have good ventilation for your soldering? But your second opinions and third opinions should come from other doctors who actually examine you :-)

Regards,

A. I can't help but wonder if metal fume fever isn't caused by the multitude of other chemicals one could produce while welding. Zinc and oxygen aren't the only variables in this equation. We must also consider the other gases in our atmosphere and the type of welding that's taking place. Acetylene, propane, fluxes all become chemical factors/reagents. I'm terrible at chemistry; I wish I had more to contribute to this topic.

A. Hi, Sandra.

Go to a doctor for your health concerns, but go to a lawyer for redress of grievances.

You can certainly trust your doctor to do his best to suggest the proper treatment for your husband, regardless of what caused those problems, but you really can't expect the doctor to render an opinion on whether your husband's employment decades ago was the cause. Your doctor rightfully says to himself "I am a doctor, that's what I do, want to do, and am good at. I didn't go into this profession to be a legal witness; it's not fair of you to try to draw me into becoming one".

A lawyer will take your case if he thinks it may be winnable, and he will have contact with doctors who prefer being expert witnesses rather than general practitioners.

Regards,

A. Hi, Jared.

I've felt like you are describing twice in my life, and both times it was food poisoning, which can be rather dangerous. So what I am saying is that when you are feeling that badly you should see a doctor, not just assume that you are suffering from metal fume fever. Welding galvanized doesn't give you a dispensation against other illnesses, and it's risky to proceed as if every time you are sick, whatever the symptoms are, it must be from inhaling zinc fumes and can't be anything else.

That, of course, does not change the fact that you should not be inhaling those fumes. You have to have proper ventilation. Zinc is a vital nutrient, not a poison, but an overdose will make you feel terrible and may have long term bad effects. Further, you are supposed to take in your nutrients by eating and digesting them, not by slathering your lungs with them.

Regards,

I just returned from the doctor after taking your comment into account, turns out I was having a withdrawal from a chemical in the welding fumes. I had a faulty respirator that was letting in a minuscule amount of smoke, and then I was inhaling it all day, the doctor said had I probably received almost 20% percent higher concentrations because I was like a reverse gas mask effect, had I not been wearing anything at all it would have been better.

A. Hi Lorinda.

I don't know the answer to your question as posed, but my personal position is that drinking milk is a 1950's approach to metal fume fever, and the 2012 answer is that people should never come home sick from work.

Regards,

A. I am 16 in the first year in my apprenticeship and currently have galvanize poisoning because someone was in a bay next to me and didn't let me know they were welding galv. This is the first time I've had galv poisoning and I usually work on galv two or three times a week. Usually I use a p3 mask and have my respirator going at the same time and it seems to work for me.

A. I've been a full time fabricator for ten years and have welded galvanized/galvanneal for days on end and never experienced any symptoms of zinc fume fever. My main concern is the plume smells of chlorine and sulfur which could also be toxic in longterm exposure. I have experienced minor bouts of nausea while welding just from the smell, a fan behind my hood stops this immediately (no smell / no nausea). I have always been under the assumption that nickel present in alloy steels especially stainless are more dangerous and likely to cause the "nickel chills" or fume fever also associated with zinc and other heavy metal fume exposure.

A. Galvanized steel can be welded safely by avoiding breathing the fumes. It's that simple. If you see white deposits inside your shield, that is zinc oxide, and its presence says your head has been in the fume plume. Get it out! The next step is to wear a high-efficiency particulate filter. While 3M's Premium Welding Fume Respirator 06920 (Valved) is OK, be sure it's on tight and snug all around. If you do a lot of welding on galvanized steel, use a cartridge-type filter; these are better because the seal is more reliable than the 06920 which is a painter's mask style. An even better approach is to have a supplied air system such as an one that is integrated into the welding hood with a batter backpack, integral fan and filter. Other methods of moving the fumes out of the welder's breathing zone such as fans, local exhaust, downdraft tables, smoke capture welding guns, etc. are discussed in more detail in the article listed below.

While breathing zinc oxide fume will make you sick, there are no long-term health effects according to the literature. See my article http://www.sperkoengineering.com/html/articles/WeldingGalvanized.pdf for references. Zinc vaporizes under the welding arc, and when it contacts oxygen in the atmosphere, it turns to zinc oxide - the white component of the welding fume. These particles are approximately the size of bacteria, and when you inhale them, your body is fooled into thinking they are bacteria, and it goes into a "kill" mode with fever, chills, nausea, etc. described in many of the above posts. The zinc oxide is absorbed easily by the lungs and passes out through your urine within 24 hours with no long-term effects. THE ONLY WAY TO AVOID GETTING ILL FROM INHALING THE ZINC OXIDE WHEN WELDING GALVANIZED STEEL IS TO AVOID INHALING THE FUMES. SEE THE FIRST PARAGRAPH!

While the above is true for the general population, I have encountered at least one individual who what hyper-sensitive to zinc fumes and to dermal contact with zinc oxides -- he could not walk through the shop where galvanized product was welded even if there was no welding going on. If you take the first paragraph precautions, wash your hands and face before eating and still have a reaction to zinc oxides, go to the drug store and buy some (in the sunscreen products) and put a small dab on the back of your hand and cover it with a band-aid. If you get a reaction within, you need to stay away from it.

Also, while zinc is a heavy metal, it does not accumulate in your body like some metals (lead, copper, arsenic, nickel, etc.). Zinc is actually an essential micronutrient -- you need 15 mg/day to stay healthy. One last note of precaution: The zinc used in galvanizing today is usually pretty pure, but it can have 1 to 2% naturally occurring lead in it, so not breathing the fumes and washing before eating are even more important.

Regards,

Walt

A. Hi Alice. Very sorry to hear of this family hardship.

Which heavy metals have reportedly accumulated in his glands? I personally dislike the phrase 'heavy metals' because it obfuscates things by mixing together helpful and harmful metals into an impenetrable morass of needless dread. The heavy metals cadmium, mercury, and lead are a serious problem whereas the heavy metals tin, iron and gold are not, and most people think zinc, silver and some others are not bio-accumulative and could only be harmful in unusual circumstances (like drinking soluble silver salts). That's my current understanding, subject of course to acquiring a better education on the subject.

Maybe there were dangerous molds in that crawl space having nothing to do with galvanizing. One problem I have with this topic is that if people "oversell" the dangers of galvanizing, people may jump to the conclusion that it is the cause of their ill health, and other things causes can be ignored, sometimes dangerously.

Please reference that 'recent research' if you can. It sounds highly questionable to me against my current knowledge base.

Regards,

Dear Ted,
Thanks for your insightful response. It helped me re-think my resentment. Our doctor did not do any follow-up tests, and my husband returned to work with modifications to his duties. Subsequent doctors did order specific lab work nor did we insist on anything that isn't covered by insurance. I did look up articles on any genetic abnormalities and the research is still out on that (although it's clear that some species adapt to pollution better than others). My husband is enjoying an early retirement and we have decided to keep a positive attitude.
Thanks again for your response!

A. Best wishes Alice.

Regards,

A. Hi Leanne. Galvanized material is steel that has been hot-dipped into molten zinc. The zinc sacrificially protects the steel from corrosion; so galvanizing is widely used, especially on roofs, large nuts & bolts, electrical transmission towers, and other areas where long life is needed and maintenance may be difficult.

When you weld that steel, the zinc coating on it vaporizes into the air and can be inhaled. Zinc is not toxic, in fact it is an essential nutrient, and is the ingredient in cold prevention remedies. But this vast overload of zinc, inhaled rather than ingested, definitely does cause this metal fume fever problem. Whether it has any longterm effects is more debatable, with studies over many decades saying it has no long term effects, but common sense telling us that an overdose that makes us sick, frequently repeated, may not be as innocuous as we're told.

The resolution is not to argue about longterm effects of such repeated overdoses, but to make sure they don't happen in the first place via excellent general ventilation and, if the exposure is more than de minimus, properly designed welding hoods. Good luck.

Regards,

A. I had metal fume fever once. I had a bunch of silver oxide I was trying to bring up to metal. My workshop filled with fumes but I thought: what the hay? people put this stuff on their noses.

I came down with this acute attack of "flu." Ack. I was running to the powder room every 10 minutes for a solid day.

Either remove the Zn before welding or wear a well fitted cartridge respirator. I wouldn't wish that sickness on my worst enemy.

Thank You!! Will pass this information on.

Thanks for your time.

Leanne

A. Back in the '70s I was building things using galvanized metal. I was concerned about welding fumes from the zinc.
I asked the Head Chemist at the WSDOT materials lab about the dangers of welding on galvanized metals.
He said the zinc fumes could make you very sick. However, the danger comes from the arsenic & cadmium that are associated with zinc.
And yes I had the "flu" and bad taste in my mouth.

He suggested pouring muriatic acid on the weld area to remove the galvanize. Since the acid is used for cleaning brick work it is really available at hardware stores and is cheap, too; also it is not as dangerous to handle as other acids.

It seemed to work.

A. Hi Bob. Sorry for your troubles. Certainly, it's possible!

On the other hand, I'm 73 and have had emphysema for at least 30 years and never welded in my life -- but I did smoke. Did you? If yes, as responsible elders, let's be careful to not offer younger people who are still smoking any straws to clutch at :-)

Regards,

  I have never smoked but I had second hand smoke as a kid.
Thanks Ted,

A. I worked for a rooftop curb manufacturer as a welder/fabricator/duct mechanic for 4 years. I welded galvanized everyday for several hours each day and I never got sick like so many here have described. This was prior to receiving formal education in welding and joining technology from an accredited school. At the time there was no proper ventilation and I wasn't informed by the employer of any specific risks when welding galvanized. With that said I knew those fumes couldn't be good in any amount. The company provided simple dust masks that were more so for the grounds/maintenance crew that would cut grass and weed eat around the property. I tried them at one point but found them to be more of a hindrance and far less effective than my method I'm about to reveal. I don't mean this as an insult to anyone here but I think using common sense (considering the lack of ventilation and proper PPE) and taking certain precautions are what saved me from experiencing any of these severe issues.

Plain and simple all I did was intentional breath-work. Before beginning my welds I would purge my hood by forcefully exhaling through my mouth followed by an inhale through my nose. Then I would start welding and once my hood was full with fumes I would purge my hood again by forcefully exhaling. Once my hood was clear of fumes I would inhale. Now just alternate being sure to purge your hood each time with the exhale. I realize that to some extent you're still breathing some of the fumes but I believe it to be far less than with any simple respirator due to lack of a proper seal to your face and/or ineffective cartridges. Even with a respirator you're still taking your breath from those plumes of welding fumes and I just didn't trust what was available to effectively do the job.

Hope this helps someone. I will say nothing probably beats a fresh air respirator with a constant flow of air when combined with proper ventilation. That's just my opinion but the best thing to do is simply avoid welding galvanized altogether if possible.