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Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Pine Beach, NJ
The authoritative public forum
for Metal Finishing since 1989
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18/10 vs. 18/8 and 18/0 stainless steel for flatware and pots & pans, p.3
Q. I recently bought two sets of Oneida flatware at Wal-mart. It has 56/9 stamped on the back of the forks. One of the spoons became discolored after being in the dishwasher. Is 56/9 a durable type of flatware for long-term use, or would 18/8 or 18/10 be better?
Rae Buckwheathomeowner - Ashland, Wisconsin
March 24, 2010
A. Hi, Rae. Similar to the last question, we have the issue of what does "56/9" mean? It certainly doesn't mean 59 percent chrome and 9 percent nickel.
Oneida claims that all of their flatware is 18 percent chrome, but they are unfortunately one of the manufacturers who has reduced the quality of some of their flatware from 18/10 to 18/0 to save on the high cost of nickel. With nothing else to go on, my assumption is that "56/9" is just a pattern number and this is the lower grade 18/0 rather than 18/10. Good luck.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
March 2010
A. Regarding the 18/8 and other 18 categories, the 18/8 is excellent for dinner dish, sink, and etc. However it is not a good candidate for heat use.
If you looking for Stainless Steel Pots I would consider 18/10 may be better, but if you are into Stainless steel dish only for serving the 18/8 is an excellent candidate especially for medical use. We test the 18/8 dipped into vinegar
⇦in bulk on
eBay
or
Amazon [affil links] for a long time and it did show excellent resistance. I hope this helps.
Regards,
Massood
- Middletown, New Jersey
November 1, 2010
A. Hello!
I found this thread very useful (as I bought a very pretty but cheap, no brand, no additional info Japanese stainless steel cutlery set, but it isn't magnetic, so I am happy).
I just have one observation: as I am a pharmacist, I wonder if the allergenic properties and the heavy metal toxicologic properties aren't confused sometimes. Many people are allergic to nickel. In this case a contact allergy is present - this is NOT toxic. Allergy means that the immune system overreacts, usually it's only uncomfortable, and only if it gets uncontrolled in rare cases (anaphylactic reaction) it can be dangerous. That means that in nickel allergy a non-nickel cutlery have to be used - strictly speaking the HANDLE has to be nickel free, because the tip doesn't have to be touched ever (that can be plastic, wood, bamboo, silver, titanium or whatever).
But modern materials as stainless steel shouldn't be toxic at all, no matter what type of food is used. Old cutlery has to be checked for lead and other toxic heavy metals.
- New Zealand
December 8, 2010
Q. Has anyone heard of 18/20 flatware? Have been told that Denby is saying you must use this configuration in flatware to avoid scratching and leaving marks on their dishes.
Fran Gallotticonsumer - Edmonton, Alberta Canada
January 10, 2011
Q. HI, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK YOU ABOUT CHROME TITANIUM COOKWARE, IF THIS METAL IS THE BEST OR THERE IS BETTER. ALSO WHAT IS THE BEST COOKWARE IN THE WORLD WE CAN USE FOR HEALTHY FOOD.THANKS
FADY LTEIFworking in cookware shop - LEBANON BEIRUT
March 10, 2011
Q. What is the difference in heat-retention qualities between 18/8 and 18/10 stainless steel in, say, a teapot?
Gary Mooreretired / consumer - Pasadena, Texas
March 13, 2011
A. Hi,
No difference, Gary. If there is some very tiny difference in specific heat or thermal conductivity, it's beyond the roundoff error they measure to.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
March 14, 2011
Q. I bought a 18/8 stainless steel food thermal lunch box and the instruction says that the salt in the food will pit the container. I read a post above that says companies located near the sea will use 18/10 containers to guard against salt corrosion.
Since most of my cooking contains salt, my question is whether I should stay away from 18/8 material for food storage. I am also wondering whether the pitting will cause the nickel and chromium to leach into my food that's being stored in the container, and later eaten by me.
Thank you and I look forward to your advice.
Many thanks,
Juan.
- New York, New York, USA
May 16, 2011
A. Hi, Juan.
A material that is good enough and safe enough for pots and pans is certainly good enough and safe enough for a lunchbox.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
May 16, 2011
Q. I have a set of pots and pans that are made of 19/9 surgical stainless steel multi-ply metal. I wanted to sell them but since they have been in my family for over 20 years and still look in great condition I'm not sure if they are worth keeping them and pass them on to my children? is this good quality metal?
Selene Rioshousewife - Phoenix, Arizona
May 21, 2011
A. Hi, Selene.
In all likelihood 19/9 stainless steel is virtually identical to 18/8. I doubt that the extra 1% of chrome and extra 1% of nickel does any harm, but to assume that it does any good might be a stretch. I personally don't know of any standards writing body that accepts 19/9 as a recognized composition (but I don't claim to know everything; I can only relate my own knowledge).
But it is getting harder and harder to get high quality stainless at any price. If you have stuff that still looks great after 20 years, make them pry it out of your cold dead fingers.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
May 24, 2011
Q. Thanks for the informative discussion. We are considering purchasing some flatware which the manufacturer claims is made of 18/10 stainless steel with titanium finish. Would the titanium enhance the durability of the product or it just affects its looks?
Val Nya- Miami, Florida, USA
June 11, 2011
Q. How about "316Ti" (Ti - Titanium)? That's the material one of the healthy cookwares is made of (which I'm interested in). Just wondering if it is really that good and doesn't have any leaching problem.
Joe j [surname deleted for privacy by Editor]- Delta, BC, Canada
September 20, 2012
A. Hi, Val. This flatware is presumably solid 18/10 (type 316) stainless steel with a coating of titanium nitride (the color of gold)? The titanium nitride is a very hard finish, so it probably will take a very long time to wear away, and should not scratch easily.
Hi, Joe. 316Ti is not stainless steel with a titanium finish, it is stainless steel with a tiny amount of titanium stabilizer. Some feel it's slightly better than 316L, others feel it's not quite as good, and still others (probably including me) feel that there is no practical difference in a cookware application. Here's a link to a British Stainless Steel Association paper explaining 316Ti vs. other type 316 stainless steel:
http://www.bssa.org.uk/cms/File/SSAS2.25-Comparison%20of%20316%20&%20316Ti%20Types.pdf
Good luck.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
September 20, 2012
Hi Ted, Thanks very much for the information.
Regarding "...316Ti is not stainless steel with a titanium finish, it is stainless steel with a tiny amount of titanium stabilizer...", does that mean 316Ti does not contain chrome and nickel? Also, the cookware website claims that 316Ti is surgical stainless steel. Is that true?
- Delta, BC, Canada
September 21, 2012
Hi. 316Ti stainless is only a small variation on 316 as explained in the link previously offered. It is 18/10 stainless steel. All 316 stainless steel is surgical stainless steel.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
September 21, 2012
Q. Hello, so 316Ti also contains nickel, right? Not different than 316 or 18/10. Does 316Ti have no reaction from salt and acid, or 316 has less reaction?
Liana budi- bandung, jwabarat, indonesia
September 15, 2017
A. Hi Liana. Again, the differences between 18/10, 316, 316L, and 316Ti are subtle and minor. It's not that there is absolutely no difference whatsoever, it's that in my personal opinion the tiny differences are of no consequence in cookware.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
September 2017
Q. Thanks for the good information about stainless steel.
We recently installed a new induction cooktop. Most of our cookware works fine, but our old stock pot (that I use for brewing beer), doesn't work. I've been looking at several large (24+ qt) pots that claim to be 18/8 or 18/10 stainless AND also claim to be "induction ready." I was under the impression that this grade of stainless was non-magnetic and that non-magnetic cookware doesn't work in an induction stove. In fact, most people suggest testing your cookware with a magnet. If the magnet sticks, it will work on an induction stove. Can you shed any light on this? Would a pot made of, say, 18/8 stainless (with an aluminum core) work on an induction stove?
Thanks!
- Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
July 12, 2011
Q. Stainless steel grade 18/10 and 403 are they same? if not can we use 403 cookwares? is it safe?
Vidhya kesavarajhomemaker - Nagercoil, Tamilnadu, India
November 1, 2011
A. Hi, Vidhya.
I believe that 403 stainless steel (18/0) is okay, but it contains no nickel and is not as stain-free and corrosion resistant as 18/8 or 18/10 (which contains 10 percent nickel).
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
November 1, 2011
Q. Could you please explain to me in detail about 403 grade? Is it a surgical stainless steel? For what purpose do they use this type of grade?
Vidhya Kesavaraj [returning]- Nagercoil, Tamilnadu, India
November 5, 2011
A. Hi, Vidhya.
While it is possible to answer questions, it is rather difficult to just generally discuss stainless steels because there are so many types, and there are multiple naming systems for the same types, and so many applications. To keep it fairly simple though, according to one of those naming systems most household stainless steel is either a "Series 3xx" stainless, like type 304 and type 316, or a "Series 4xx" stainless like type 403.
Household Series "3xx" stainless steels have about 8 to 10 percent nickel in them and are nonmagnetic whereas "Series 4xx" stainless steels have no nickel in them and are magnetic. The Series "3xx" series are generally considered more corrosion resistant, and they are more expensive because nickel is much more costly than steel. "Surgical stainless" is a "Series 3xx" stainless steel, so 403 is not surgical stainless steel.
In a different naming system, "Series 3xx" are sometimes called 18/8 or 18/10 depending on whether they have 18 percent chromium and 8 percent or 10 percent nickel respectively. In that other naming system "Series 4xx" is called 18/0 because it has 18 percent chromium and no nickel.
But there is nothing "wrong" with "Series 4xx" stainless steel. In fact, some people, rightly or wrongly, think it is better (safer for the body) because it is nickel-free.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
November 7, 2011
Q. Why does there seem to be a nasty metallic taste from a pot that's 18/10? The pot is made in China. Does it make a difference? I've had old 18/10 stainless steel pots that were made in Korea and don't have any such aftertaste.
Tammi Hayes- Chicago, Illinois, USA
December 23, 2011
Q. I wonder if someone would mind drastically oversimplifying this information for me. Ideally, if someone's willing, I'd love a simple recommendation. I thought I'd done my research when I learned about 18/10, but clearly that's just the tip of the iceberg, and I'm overwhelmed.
My daughter's getting married in less than four weeks. She's finishing school and has three jobs, so as of yet, there's no bridal registry. People keep asking. At my suggestion, she's decided to prioritize getting stainless steel. She and her fiance will keep kosher and always have lots of guests, but they won't have much money, and they're leaving the country. Beautiful stainless steel is emotionally satisfying, portable, and too expensive to buy on your own after you get married.
If she decides to ask for place settings of nice stainless that's heavy and durable, then what should she consider? I realize that the answer to this question is embedded in all the posts I just read, but I think I'm getting information overload. If anyone would be willing to oversimplify, we'd be very, very grateful.
- Nashville, Tennessee, USA
February 26, 2012
Q. Hi, Mae. I bought stainless at Williams-Sonoma and am very happy with it. I'd suggest picking a pattern that is very shiny (indicating that it is probably electropolished), and not made in China. I picked the Beau Manoir pattern from Guy Degrenne, made in France .
I guess I'm not a very 'continental' fellow because I feel the teaspoons are the size of baby spoons and the tablespoons almost the size of serving spoons -- but that's just me. They don't rust at all and they stay shiny in the dishwasher.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
Q. It is one of the best discussions I ever read, it is very informative and simple . Thank you all for questions and answers which enriched my information :)
I'd like to know which grade of steel is preferred for kitchen knives , because I always buy knives but after few days of using it needs to be sharpened .
Can you please tell me the best grade of SS that I can buy so it doesn't need to be sharpened regularly ?
- Alexandria - Egypt
March 4, 2012
A. Hi, Mohamed.
Type 18/8 and 18/10, alternately called type 304 or 316, are fine for tableware but will not hold an edge for use as a knife. Type 18/0, alternately called type 400 or 4xx will hold an edge and are still stainless steel, although not as stain-less as the others.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
March 6, 2012
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