Hoyt Metal Ingot. What type of metal do I have?

A. See thread 10770. "Hoyt white metal is generally tin & lead based alloys used mostly for the lining of bearings." [A similar, rather vague reference elsewhere refers to a machinists handbook ca. 1915.]

From 'Mechanical Music Digest' (Thu 21 May 1998) [www.mmdigest.com/Archives] "Hoyt metal -- two ply, tin coated, 84% lead, 10% tin, 6% antimony" [two ply refers to the tin coating] and "Hoyt metal is used in organ pipes... because they look like they have been nickel plated." . 'Mechanical Music Digest' (Tue 26 May 1998) suggests that Hoyt metal was made by a cladding process involving hot rolling. A book by George Ashdown Audsley on organ construction (1905) [ ⇦[this on eBay , Amazon, AbeBooks affil links] ] gives a favorable reference to Hoyt Metal as a material for the Aeoline portion of organs.

In a reference to 1920s Wurlitzer organs "The Harmonic Tuba of Hoyt metal was actually cheaper and used less lead than the Tuba Horn."

Hoyt Metal operated in the St. Louis area (Granite City, IL) ca. early 1900s: "Metal refining, fabricating, and associated activities started at the site before 1900. Hoyt Metal opened a metal processing operating on site. Hoyt Metal sold the operation and it was renamed United Lead. In 1928, NL Industries bought United Lead" This eventually became the NL Industries/Taracorp Superfund Site. "In March 2000, soil and waste cleanup activities were completed at the NL/Taracorp site." (http://www.epa.gov/region5/gateway/nl.htm)

A Hoyt Metal Company was listed as having a railroad (CPR) siding in Jan. 1926 in the Toronto area. (http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/train_sidings.html ⇩)

Another US EPA website refers to HOYT METAL CO, 231 STATE ST, PERTH AMBOY, NJ 08861. A Preliminary Assessment of the site was conducted, but no action was taken other than to archive the report in 1987.

Batteries Digest Index to issues #46-#57 (2000) lists Hoyt Metal 51-6 [issue-page?].

I was unable to find any business currently operating as Hoyt Metal or E. R. Hoyt (mentioned in thread #10770). Although your metal is not silver, it may have some value as a collectible or for reconstruction of antique musical instruments.

[Ed. update: The above link is broken. Thankfully, the Internet Archive preserved a copy here
These days information often appears on the internet, then disappears forever. If that is a concern to you please consider a donation to The Internet Archive.

A. You have a bar of Babbitt - the ingredients given to you by someone else already - Babbitt is used to make bearings.

A. Hoyt is still manufacturing Babbitt metals in the UK, where it began. It has been taken over but its Web page is: www.darchem.co.uk/Hoyt_Darchem/Babbitt_Alloys

[Ed. update: The above link is broken. Thankfully, the Internet Archive preserved a copy here
These days information often appears on the internet, then disappears forever. If that is a concern to you please consider a donation to The Internet Archive.

A. Hi William.
Arguably the world expert on Hoyt Metal, Phil Dando, says that "Nickel Genuine" does not mean the ingot is nickel, but that the babbitt metal has been modified with the addition of 1/4 to 1% nickel. Luck & Regards,


Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
March 4, 2024

A. Hoyt number 11 was a very high quality 'White Metal' bearing alloy made by the Hoyt Metal Company of Putney England, where I worked for a time in their quality lab. Number 11 (when I worked there, number 11R) was used in ship and car bearings such as the connecting rod big end bearings and ships propeller shaft bearings (huge things that used to get machined on a massive vertical lathe). It's mainly ultra pure tin with metals such as copper and antimony to improve its properties. Tin has a tendency to contain lead, totally unacceptable in a good white metal bearing as lead and tin together are used to make electrical solder - i.e. a low melting point alloy. Any lead in a bearing would lower its melting point in places making it prone to breaking up. As a result the tin Hoyt used was 99.999% pure and cost £10,000 per ton in 1976. Hoyt metal was so good that Far East companies used to produce forgeries of the ingots; we always found way too much lead in those forgeries. To protect its alloy, Hoyt put an expensive trace metal into the alloy just as a marker.

A. As mentioned, Hoyt was/is a metal company, so they cast ingots of babbitt and other metals. It's probably reasonably high quality metal, but common stuff, not platinum or rhodium or even silver. That pretty much covers it, and I don't think there is much more to say.

List it on eBay if you think someone would be proud to own the ingot, or take it to a scrap dealer who will probably give you a dollar or so a pound for it. If you take it to a junk yard that has an alloy-sorter x-ray fluorescence machine [ ⇦ this on eBay or Amazon [affil links] ] they can tell you the exact alloy analysis, and what they can give you for it, but I think it's going to be a couple of dollars a pound, tops. Good luck!

A. Hi, Karen. It's hard to say for sure whether Hoyt ever marketed candlesticks, but I doubt it.

My guess is that from time to time they made various promotional items that their salespeople used as giveaways to help market their babbitt metals, or perhaps as retirement gifts for employees, etc. The candlesticks were perhaps an example of those items, probably cast from Hoyt babbitt metal.

Good luck with them.

Regards,

A. This is to Karen Johns about her candlestick holder. I have a pair of them and they were made in the late 1800's by Hoyt Medal Company in Saint Louis, Mo. They appear to me to be done in Pewter.

A. Thought I would add to this discussion. During the 60's my father Worked for National Lead, later known as NL Industries. During college I worked at the Hoyt Metal facility owned by NL. The candlesticks are pewter and were manufactured by NL through one of their divisions. I cannot confirm if they were specifically cast at the Hoyt plant in Granite City, IL. or not. NL marketed a variety of consumer products made by their Doehler-Jarvis Division. Though consumer products, they were not generally available to the public. More often they were given to company employees and customers of different divisions of NL. I have some of these candlesticks and they are hard to come by these days. Enjoy them.

Alan

A. Hi, Don.

NBD apparently means National Bearing Div.
397 is probably a specific composition, but I wouldn't know whether the composition information was publicly advertised or a trade secret. "Silver" probably doesn't mean much because people started calling bearing metal that was whitish "Silver Babbitt". But silver can be used as a bearing material, so it just might actually be silver.

Although I doubt that it is worth more than a dollar or two a pound, you could take it to a scrap yard that has a alloy sorter / scrap sorter ⇦ this on eBay or Amazon [affil links] X-Ray Fluorescence machine and they could tell you the composition. If actually silver, great!

Regards,

A. Hi Joseph. We know it's not natural because you don't find copper and iron in nature as metals (because they corrode). To get from ore to metal requires putting in a lot of heat in the absence of oxygen, and that happens only in meteorites and man-made furnaces.

How do you know it has those eight metals in it?

Most any "We Buy Gold!" shop, on every other corner in cities these days, can tell you what it's worth. Many scrap dealers these days have alloy sorter hand-held x-ray fluorescence machines ⇦ this on eBay or Amazon [affil links] that can tell you what it is and the percentages. These are expensive machines ($30,000+), but sound like what you need. Detailed lab testing (look up metallurgical laboratories in your yellow pages or on your computer) would be expensive and maybe not worth it -- but you have a lot of choices. Good luck!

Regards,

TED, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR RESPONDING TO MY QUESTION. I HAD IT TESTED AT A SCRAP YARD WHEN I FIRST FOUND IT AND THE GUY HAD WRITTEN THE INFO ON A PIECE OF PAPER (WHICH I NO LONGER HAVE) I KIND OF WANTED SOMETHING MORE OFFICIAL LOOKING THAN THE PIECE OF GREASY PAPER I RECEIVED FROM THE SCRAP YARD. I WILL TAKE YOUR ADVISE AND LOOK UP THE LABS ON THE COMPUTER AND GO FROM THERE. THANK YOU AGAIN.

A. Hi Alison. There just isn't much to say that wasn't already said on this page :-)

Those bars were sold by Hoyt and the buyer would melt them down, like you melt solder, then cast them into cylindrical or other shapes for use as anti-friction bearings/bushings in motors and power transmission stuff.

They are some mix of tin and/or lead and some other minor metals. They are neither precious metal, nor have we ever heard from anybody who collects them or who wants them in 16 years now. They might be worth two or three dollars per pound at a capable junkyard, but maybe not.

You could call an industrial history museum and see if they could use the donated bars for an exhibit, or you could put them in your own garage and maybe when your kids or grandkids clean it up 50 years from now there might be an interested collector. Good luck :-)

Regards,

A. Trojan is nominally 60% Tin 11% Antimony 3% Copper and remainder Lead. It was a brand of National Lead Co, USA who at one time owned Hoyt Metal Co of Great Britain and Canada Metal Co. Most Babbitt metals are based on Tin with additions of other metals but some are based on Lead. Value as scrap is much higher for the Tin ones. I have several hundred different specifications on my database of Hoyt and other babbitt bearing metals.
Re: earlier on this thread - Nickel Genuine contains only 0.25 to 1% Nickel. Up to this level benefits the alloy, more than this weakens it. HOYT in UK bought tin from Capper Pass refiners with a certified purity of 99.97% or better.
I joined Hoyt London in 1972 and retired in 2009 at which time the brand belonged to German group Ecka Granules. It is currently owned by an American metals manufacturer.

A. Excellent presentation, Phil. Thanks!

Luck & Regards,

Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey