Sound technical content, curated with aloha by
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Pine Beach, NJ
The authoritative public forum
for Metal Finishing since 1989
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LOOKING FOR INFO ON HOYT METAL BARS
Quickstart:
Hoyt Metal Co. was a supplier of metals, basically lead-tin alloys, sometimes with a small amount of other metals, and usually used for solder and for babbitt bearings. They sold the metal in ingots which the buyer would melt down in a solder pot or cast to shape as required. There were a number of different formulas for special applications.
This thread is graced with a response by Phil Dando who is arguably the world expert on Hoyt metal.
There does not appear to be a strong collectibles market for these ingots yet, but they are worth their weight as scrap metal (the high tin content alloys being worth more than the high lead alloys). Thread 18884 is on the same subject but we have not merged the two threads because it would be more confusing to follow.
Q. I have 3 metal bars that I am trying to find out info on value and history. These bars have written on them, HOYT METAL CO. ST. LOUIS GENUINE-A, NOT GENUINE WITHOUT SIGNATURE, THE SIGNATURE ON THEM IS E R HOYT, ON BACK THEY HAVE WRITTEN U.S. PAT OFF.
RICHARD M [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]- Kiln, Mississippi
2001
A. Hoyt white metal is generally tin & lead based alloys used mostly for the lining of bearings. Ingots of specific grades are still made under license to E R Hoyt and still are stamped with the original signature as this is a trademark.
Value is generally according to the composition which would fluctuate according to the price of tin or alloying elements such as antimony, copper, silver, cadmium, arsenic, etc. These bars may have added value due to the age if stamped with a cast date.
Rob P [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]- Australia
Q. Hello Mr. Richard M,
I have one of the bars you spoke of and was like to know if you have found out any information about them. The bar I have has all the writing stamped into it like the one you have and I got it from my grandfather years ago and I am sure he had for awhile.
Please let me know if you found out anything and have a great day.
Sincerely,
- Herrin, Illinois, USA
2007
Q. I have also myself a similar bar; but it's written on it : HOYT METAL CO STANDARD PARIS. The signature E. R. HOYT is on the back with the weight : HOYTONZE . It's seems that it had been manufactured under license also in France.
Unfortunately I could not find any other information. Any detail would be appreciated.
I have some pictures.
- Bordeaux, FRANCE
January 20, 2008
Q. I have a bar also with the embossing Hoyt Metal Co London
and in large letters the word ICE and embossed on that "Internal, can't make the e bit out, Engine
It also says THE FORMER UNREGISTERABLE BRAND HAS BEEN ABANDONED TO IMITATORS HOYT METAL CO COPPER HARDENED LINING METAL
- Perth, W.A Australia
March 21, 2008
A. Reply to Paul A Rossi
- Perth, W.A Australia
I found an ingot as you described in a wreck near Oban Scotland -The ingot is in perfect condition it dates to the second world war the letters ICE
(stand for "internal combustion engine" - this one is due to go to the wreck museum at puffin divers Oban.
- Nottingham UK
Q. I have metal bars that I am trying to find out info on value and history. These bars have written on them, griffin tacomaara 1928 30-700-t433107 J245.
Richard Ramos- Davao City, Philippines
March 25, 2008
Q. HI!
I also have Hoyt metal bars with stamp HOYT METAL CO STANDARD LONDON and some numbers and signature on them. Does anybody knows what they are used for? what is their value, can I sell them?
thank you for any information,
greets
- split, Croatia
A. I have a copy of a Hoyt (London) catalogue, and it makes no mention of a type A bearing metal although there are types 4A and 57A. It also mentions type I.C.E. which is heavy duty type used for railway locomotive bearing boxes, bearings in machine tools, steam engines, low speed pumps, compressors, etc. Type I.C.E. has a pouring temperature of 415 °C (780 F).
I hope this helps --Nick.
Nick Mulcahy- Hobart, Tasmania, Australia.
May 22, 2008
Hi, Nick. Thanks!
Readers may wish to also see letter 18884 on this subject, and possibly letter 22536 on the subject of Hoyt meters and thermometers.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
Q. Hi Nick! I have a signed bar of Hoyt metal inscribed like Antonia's with the London Co STANDARD and on the pour side of each segment "NUMBER ELEVEN" with just one "D".
It weighs 2 Kg so must have been cast since we went metric.
Is there anything in your London Cat on this grade?
I am retired and reconditioning an American tool & cutter grinder- I intend to cast an Acme nut from this ingot.
Regards
- Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
August 1, 2008
! Following my letter of 1st Aug 2008 I have had the ingots X-rayed with the following results:
Hoyt grade eleven = 83% tin; 7% Antimony; 6% copper
Magnolia A.F. Metal Company of Great Britain grade RM2 = 61% lead; 14% zinc; 17% antimony; 3% copper.
Currently scrap value of high grade tin here is 5GBP/kilo.
Regards
- Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
A. In response to Colin Murdoch's posting on 1/8/2008 the Hoyt catalogue lists No.11D as suitable for several uses including bearings in petrol engines whilst No.11R is used in diesel engines, heavy stationary type, marine and road vehicles. Both 11D and 11R have a pouring temperature of 388 °C.
Nick Mulcahy- Hobart, Tasmania, Australia.
May 4, 2009
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Q. I just want to get information about a metal with a hanoi ming print ... is it a valuable metal ... is it worth millions? Joy Orsolino- Philippines October 21, 2008 A. Hi, Joy. For each priceless object out there, there are ten thousand people who have been scammed. If you already own this item, take it to an an antique dealer or museum curator for evaluation. If someone is trying to get you to cooperate on some valuable finding, go to the police :-) Regards, Ted Mooney, P.E. Striving to live Aloha finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey |
Q. Hi I had found a metal bar awhile back and it is stamped with a circle and what it appears to be a roman numeral 3 the bar is not whole and so I can't tell. It's a really soft metal, kind of heavy, I don't know if it's lead or not.
Lorenzo Gomeznon business - Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
July 13, 2009
A. I have an ingot described exactly as the original inquirer except mine is stamped .999 on the rear, was given to me over 40 years ago by my grandfather which at that time was 88 years old and he had it for as long as he could remember. He told me at the time that it was " babbit" which was used to make rod and main bearings in the first made automobiles.
Fred T Givens- Davidson, North Carolina
September 20, 2010
A. I also have a Hoyt metal bar, I got about 40 years ago. It looked as old then as it does now. It is Stamped Nickel Genuine, With the ER Hoyt signature. Also has the Registered Pat Off on back but no numbers.
Bill holder- Belleville, Illinois
September 21, 2010
Q. I want to know its value and purpose.
Manal Kassim- Kenya
December 2, 2011
A. Hi, Manal. No one has offered us an overall summary, but I can only guess. It seems like most of this Hoyt metal was used for bearings in machinery like locomotives. It probably was a low melting point alloy that could be melted in a solder pot on site and then cast into shape or perhaps "wiped" on in the manner that old time plumbers made joints in lead pipes. There are interesting old flyers and posters illustrated at www.gracesguide.co.uk/Hoyt_Metal_Co
However, it also seems that Hoyt Metal Company offered other metals in addition to these low melting point bearing metals. Your bar is metal of some composition that no one will know offhand, and it's intrinsic value would depend on what specific metals were in it. But the short answer is these metals are more valuable than iron, but much less valuable than silver. I would keep it (or sell it) as an antique artifact rather than trying to melt it down.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
A. Hoyt Metal operated in the St. Louis area (Granite City, IL) ca. early 1900s: "Metal refining, fabricating, and associated activities started at the site before 1900. Hoyt Metal opened a metal processing operating on site. Hoyt Metal sold the operation and it was renamed United Lead. In 1928, NL Industries bought United Lead. This eventually became the NL Industries/Taracorp Superfund Site
Robin McNichol- Nanaimo, BC Canada
July 4, 2012
Q. I have 2 metal bars signed ER Hoyt and stamped with number 175 and state registered trade mark. Are these of any value? I have had them for approx. 45 years now.
Diana Neilson- South Africa
July 20, 2013
A. I was manager of Hoyt tech sales. Hoyt was bought by Ecka germany and I continued selling metals until retirement in 2009.
Hoyt 11d is approx. 88% tin, 8% antimony, 4% copper.
11r is similar + 1% cadmium + 0.2% nickel
Hoyt 175 is 75% tin, 15% antimony, 7% copper + lead.
There are a large number of Hoyt alloys, all aimed at bearing linings.
- horsham, sussex, uk
September 30, 2014
Hi Phil,
It is nice to see you here ... I think I had the pleasure to meet you in person some years ago through a common friend (Mr. Sascha Ewert). We are a white metal supplier located in Spain, do you remember?
Regards,
Roberto,
gruposenra.com - Ourense, Spain
January 21, 2015
Q. I have found a square piece of metal marked HOYT METAL CO. it is about 1 1/2 in. square by about 1/2 in thick can you tell me what I have and is it worth anything ?. I don't have a picture and I can't send it anyway because I had a bad virus on my computer and took it to the shop to get it fixed. It came back wiped clean and I can't do much.
wilbur hutzelretired coal miner - mason West Virginia
January 7, 2017
A. Hi Wilbur. Hoyt made metals for plain bearings and things like that; it might be tin and lead or something like that. So it's not worthless, but such a small piece of fairly common metal isn't valuable either. A small piece like that might have been a paperweight giveaway to customers rather than having been intended for melting into bearing linings.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
January 2017
Q. My question is whether anyone can tell me what this might be? I suspect it is a lead alloy, since it looks like it succumbed to someone's hammer. The metal is much harder than the lead in the ingots visible in one of the photos.
I found the bar in my father-in-law's garage after he passed away in 2001.
Thanks,
Paul Hamilton
Victoria, Texas, USA
November 2017
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