Sound technical content, curated with aloha by
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Pine Beach, NJ
The authoritative public forum
for Metal Finishing since 1989
-----
Rusting Nails student experiment & research (cont'd)
Q. Hi, I am in grade 7 and:
I am doing a science project on rust. My project is to determine the effects of different liquids on iron nails, specifically which liquids cause rust to happen most quickly. I used 4 iron nails, 4 canning jars with lids, 4 liquids - sea water, tap water, sugar water (1 tsp in about 8 oz of water) and bleach. A nail was put into each jar and then one of the 4 liquids was used to fill the jar and completely cover the nail. After 48 hours I saw the following:
nail in tap water - lots of rust, rust was very clumpy, clumpy rust residue was on the bottom of the jar and water was bit cloudy, but not much
nail in salt water - nail completely covered in a dusting of rust (rust not clumpy at all but looked like dust), water was very cloudy and lots of rust dust sat on the bottom of the jar and about 1/4 way up the sides of the jar
nail in sugar water: results very much like the tap water results but not as much rust - but rust was clumpy
nail in bleach: not much rust at all, very very little and no rust in the liquid or at bottom of the jar - the funny thing is the rust was very dark, black, compared to the orange/brown colour of the rust in the other liquids
my questions:
why is some rust clumpy (tap, sugar water) versus dusty (sea water)
why is the rust in the bleach black instead of orange/brown in colour
why is the nail in tap water rusting the quickest when compared to sugar water
thank you for your help
gr 7 student, Irwin Park Elementary - West Vancouver, B.C., Canada
2006
2006
by Janice VanCleave
on AbeBooks
or eBay or
Amazon
(affil links)
Q. My daughter is in second grade and we have run a ten day experiment on different metals (copper, stainless steel, steel and aluminum) in distilled H2O, salt H2O and rain H2O. We have documented when the rust appears in each solution (or does not appear with the non rusting nails). My question is...how can we document the amount of rust on each nail. We do not have access to a precise scale and would like to do something more scientific that yes there's rust or no there is not rust. Any ideas?
Thanks,.
- Pleasant Garden, North Carolina
A. Just the question may be beyond 2nd grade level, Kerry :-)
I'd suggest wiping the rust off the nail onto a Mr. Coffee filter, and pouring the solution through the same filter. When it dries she can tape the rusty area of the coffee filters to her project board as a good qualitative measure of rust.
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2006
Q. I am a 6th grader doing a science project on "Which kind of water will rust a nail faster, salt water or tap water?" Well I found out my variables: the independent variable is whichever kind of water I used for each of my experiments, and my constants are the amount of water, the nails, and the glass containers, and my dependent variable is the [amount of rust on the] nails. My hypothesis is excellent. When I did my experiment(s) at 7:50 PM I woke up the next morning at 6:22 and the tap water had already rusted why is that? When I looked it up on the internet it says that the salt water was going to rust faster then I did a little bit of research at the library and I found out that it would take the salt water a little while to rust because the salt preserves the nails. I even came on here and tried to find some answers PLEASE IF You HAVE A SCIENCE FAIR PROJECT LOOK AT THIS BECAUSE IT WILL HELP YOU!
Angela B [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]- Smithfield, North Carolina
2006
A. I finally ran this experiment myself, Angela, and feel that a student will NOT see any reliable difference in the rust rate for fresh and salt water as the experiment was described to me. See letter 38861 for my results. Good luck.
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2006
Q. Well to the finishing. com people (not to be rude cause I don't know your name) what kind of nails did you use? I used wire nails and in my classroom there is another group that did the same project that I did and their hypothesis came out the same as mine so I believe that you did something wrong. Did you do two experiments?
Angela B [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]- Smithfield, North Carolina
2006
A. My response on letter 38861 describes the nails I used, Angela. The phrase "came out", in the sense you used it, doesn't apply to a hypothesis. A hypothesis is the theory you want to prove or disprove. The results of a properly conducted experiment tend to prove or disprove a hypothesis.
You said your hypothesis was excellent but you didn't say what your hypothesis was. Nonetheless, if three experiments were performed and two leaned your way and one leaned the other way, then there is more evidence to support your hypothesis than there is to refute the hypothesis, but there is not so much evidence to support the hypothesis that you should become overconfident. Good luck.
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2006
Q. I'm conducting an experiment on nails and rust, I've placed several nails in different solutions containing boiled water, tap and pond, each category has three containers in those container I added yeast, soil and nothing separately. I am taking into account the temperature of these containers, the setting(sun exposure)and pH level. All these are in sealed containers. I was wondering with all the information should I be keeping track of bacteria growth and if so how should I be doing it, I've heard a lot about agar petri dishes, are those recommended.
I am a grade eleven student, and would be very appreciative for your help!
experiment - Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
2006
Q. Hi, I'm in Grade 11 in Australia and I'm also (like every other student in the world) doing an experiment on rusting nails.
I'm having a hard time finding chemical equations, and I was wondering if anyone could give me some pointers on the equations for a nail in bleach (links or books would be fine)
Thanks
- Canberra, ACT Australia
2006
A. I can give you a start, Christine, by telling you that bleach is about 10% NaOCl dissolved in water with NaOH added to keep the pH high so that it does not spontaneously degenerate and release excessive Cl2. NaOCl is named 'sodium hypochlorite'. Maybe by hunting for the formula or chemical name you will find how it reacts with Fe.
But it is a powerful oxidizing agent, which is why it will bleach dyes and why it disinfects. It would seem to me, although I haven't researched it, that iron plus an oxidizing agent should give you oxidized iron, i.e., rust. Mitchell reported that bleach caused little rust, but very dark rust.
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2006
Q. I am doing a Science fair project on which household product will protect a nail from rusting the longest. I am using cooking oil spray, Vaseline, motor oil and anti-freeze. I will weigh the nails before I place them in water and then every 24 hours. The question I have is, will the nail weigh more or less when rust starts to form?
Jarrett M [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]student - Allentown, Pennsylvania
2006
A. Well, the rust is the original iron plus oxygen, so the nail plus the rust will theoretically weigh more than the nail. But rust is non-adherent; some will be on the nail but some will sludge off into the solution. So the way to do it is to rub the rust off and weigh the now rust-free nail -- which will weigh less than it originally did.
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2006
Q. Hi. I am a 6th grader who can't find any research for the subject "How does a more neutral pH scaled effect the rust growth on iron nails". If anyone has any answer or website for this they can respond here. Thank you for reading this and I hope you have some information on weather you can help me. This is also a science fair project so if you help me I would recognize this website and include your name in my project so please...HELP ME!
Signed,
Clueless and Confused
P.S....I'm a girl boys so please help me out!
Shanna [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]school - Edina, Minnesota
2007
A. The purpose of your project isn't really for you to break new ground and produce new advances in corrosion science . . . the purpose of your report is for you to learn how to proceed on such research projects, Shanna. This is what libraries are for. The way to proceed is to start at the library, with a librarian giving you general guidance on how to start researching (not to ask someone to do your homework for you because you're a girl). Boys should carry your books, yes (I'm old fashioned). But do your homework? No :-)
If you have a specific question or problem area after the project is underway, we'll try to help.
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2007
Q. I'm in 8th grade and my teacher told us that Coca Cola can make a penny dissolve. I was wondering how long do you think it would take? I'm going to conduct my own experiment and see which type of cola (diet, regular, with lime, C0, etc.) will work faster. I would like to work within a week so I need to know if it will last longer than that.
=)
student - NYC, New York
2007
A. First, make sure that all of your pennies are 1983 or later, Zoe, so that they will be made of a zinc core with copper plating. Pennies before 1982 were solid copper and will not dissolve in Coke. If this is not in your lab notes please tell your teacher to put it in for future students.
Second, fold some of your pennies in half with pliers or a vise to expose the zinc, or cut them into pie pieces with tin snips so the Coke can get to it easily, instead of having to find it's way through microscopically small holes in the copper plating. Now they should corrode very substantially within a week.
Third ask your teacher, before you start, what lesson you are supposed to learn from this. Darwin himself said that one of the worst pities would be to spend your life going down to a gravel pit every day and categorizing each pebble by weight and color. So pointless! So what is the point in finding that one secret formula such as regular or with lime, corrodes a penny faster than some other secret formula. Coca-Cola could change the formulations any day they wish, even right in the middle of your experiments.
So perhaps the actual answer you get is pointless and the real purpose of your work is to learn experimental procedure. And here's the most important thing you will learn from the experiment: buy a small bound notebook (composition book), number the pages, and write down every step you do and everything you see with date & time, everything, don't rely on your memory of any of it -- have the notebook open and the pen uncapped every second you are working on it.
The first paragraph will probably be that you used only post 1982 pennies because . . .
The second paragraph will probably be that you folded them in half because . . .
Submitting that notebook should get you an A+.
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2007
Q. My son is in third grade and we are about to begin an experiment to see if Coke, spring water or nail polish will remove rust better.
Before we start I wanted to see if I could get some suggestions of what he needs to take measurements of. I think he has to have 2 graphs.
He is aware that he needs to check the color of the nail and water as well as check the weight of the nail because we have done that in past experiments. Should we check the pH of the liquid as well?
Does rust have a higher pH and is it more acidic or is considered a base? We will go to the library to back up findings.
Thanks for your help. My son loves science projects!
mother of student - League City, Texas
November 25, 2008
|
Mr. Mooney & the other adults that are suggesting these kids are not doing their own experiments need to understand that, although in some cases they may be correct, some of these kids are required to do a research paper as well as an experiment. I am working with my 8 year old on his required assignment, and finding information about how different liquids affect the rusting process is not an easy thing. It should be up to their parents to decide how much of this the kids are doing properly & how much is taking the easy way out. Kathy Masters- Humble, Texas January 7, 2009 Hi, Kathy. Of course it is up to their parents to decide; I wouldn't even dream of suggesting otherwise! So we clearly ask that when a student posts a question they include their age or grade. But almost none do, so we often don't know if they are a 2nd grader or a Senior in high school. They also usually give us no clue to the degree of parental involvement, and there may be none for high schoolers. If I'm asked to answer a question that I think is from a high schooler, and which makes me feel like an enabler, damaging the child's science learning instead of helping it, it is my right to decline :-) Regards, Ted Mooney, P.E. Striving to live Aloha finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey |
Q. i have this project and haven't been able to find the information I'm looking for so can you tell me what causes a steel nail to rust more ammonia ⇦this on eBay or Amazon [affil links] or water and why. Thank you so much.
Arianna c [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]student - guyana
January 3, 2009
"Hands-on" learning is fun, maybe try a precision scale? . . .
"Hands-on" learning is fun, maybe try a ...
Precision Electronic Scale
on
eBay
or
Amazon
(affil links)
A. Hi, Arianna. Conduct an experiment based on the clues on this page, tell us the results you got, and I'll try to help you explain it.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
January 10, 2009
Q. okay well me and my sister are doing a science project on rusting nails we are in the 8th grade...this is the back up info... we are rusting steel nails one will be hanging above either tap water, coke, vinegar
⇦in bulk on
eBay
or
Amazon [affil links] ,and orange juice. we will put one nail above a plastic container and one inside the same one the other nail is hanging from. we need help because we are kinda doing this project late and well we have to write an introduction I just need some help to find some research on this topic and a little guidance on this project as well
thank you
student - san antonio Texas
January 4, 2009
A. Hi, Anna & Brenda. Your librarian can point you to age-appropriate books on corrosion; but if your teacher trusts internet sources, most of what you need is in this one thread, and everything you need can be found by searching this site for "student rust".
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
January 10, 2009
Q. I'm in 8th grade and I have to do a project for science fair and I'm testing if a steel nail will rust faster in pond water, tap water, or salt water. I can't find info so I can make a hypothesis of which will rust faster and slower I also need help on how I should conduct this experiment and how much time they need to sit in the different water and how much salt I need to put in the salt water. HELP!
Lucy H [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]- Wichita, Kansas
September 4, 2009
Q. I'm in the 8th grade, I'm doing a project to see what liquids rust nails the fastest. I understand the procedure and everything but I need to get some ideas for liquid. I know I have to start with a control (tap water), but I need other liquids. Could you please help!
Nick B [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]student - Fort Walton Beach, Florida, United States
October 26, 2009
A. Hi, Nick. People on this page have already suggested salt water, pickle juice, vinegar, rubbing alcohol, Dr. Pepper, bleach, oil, sugar water, cold boiled water, Coke, Sprite, Diet Coke, Seven Up, Lemonade, and Windex
⇦this on
eBay or
Amazon [affil links]
. That sounds like a good list to pick from, but:
1. Be sure not to add any other liquids to the bleach or
⇦this on
eBay or
Amazon [affil links]
as that can be dangerous.
2. I'd prefer avoiding the sodas, only because they are secret formulas that can change; if you don't know what is in them, it's hard to make genuine and useful scientific observations. And if they make changes, then what was true yesterday may not be true tomorrow.
Good luck.
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
October 26, 2009
Q. I have a science fair in two weeks so I was wandering if you could tell me how does rust form, where does it form best and how long it takes for rust to form? if you could tell me soon I would really appreciate it. p.s I was going to do my science project on a nail. I'm in a fourth grade class and I am 10 yrs. old. THANKS FOR LISTENING TO ME AND THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT~!
katie m [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]- exeter, Nebraska, us of a
May 1, 2010
Q. Hi, My name is chelsea and I'm in the 11th grade. I am doing an experiment on the effects of different contaminants in the rate of rusting iron nails, I just wanted to ask about the procedure. Do you leave the nails in the solution for 2 weeks straight?, or do you have to let it out every night?. Do you also have to clean the nails afterwards?
I really need your help...Thank you!
- Laguna, Philippines
June 29, 2010
A. Hi, Chelsea. I would have expected your teacher to give you the procedures s/he wanted followed. But if not, then you get to choose your own.
I would leave the nails in the solution since it's simpler and easier to retain consistency.
The way a professional would do this is to start by weighing the nails before the test. After the test, any accumulated rust would be removed, then the nail would be weighed again to see how much weight loss it suffered. So, as for cleaning the nails after the test, it depends on how you are going to try to quantify the amount of rust.
Good luck.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
June 29, 2010
Q. Hi, It's me again. I'm about to start my experiment but I wanted to know if the contaminants I chose is good enough. So far I have chosen salt water, water with sugar, vinegar, lemon juice, and pepsi cola. Are those good enough? or do I have to change any of them?
Please help...Thank you!
- Laguna, Philippines
June 29, 2010
Hi, Chelsea. They sound like good choices to me. Good luck.
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
July 2010
Q, A, or Comment on THIS thread -or- Start a NEW Thread
[an error occurred while processing this directive]