Finishing Technology Hotline -- Weird Alloys

"Finishing Technology Hotline BBS" Postings by Topic

Ed. note: before the internet existed, there was a time when "Sysops" (system operators) ran publics forums via dial-up modems and "BBS" (Bulletin Board System) software. Here is one such discussion from 1991.

Not your run of the mill (!) alloy

Msg. #1374 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 11/14/90 at 13:47:16
To: ALL From: BASIL SLAWYCZ - silicone carbide aluminum plating need info on surface prep & plating of high silicone carbide content aluminum alloy; specifically nickel & silver plating.answer here or please call greg green or bill slawycz @ spar aerospace canada 514-457-2150 extension 3146 (fax 514-457-2724 ) thank you.

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Msg. #1375 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 11/14/90 at 14:28:24
To: BASIL SLAWYCZ From: TED MOONEY - Reply To 'silicone carbide aluminum plating'
Conventional aluminum pretreatment for plating is probably required: either zincate or Alstan. Unfortunately, you are almost sure to need hydrofluoric acid in your prep to deal with the silicon. A possible alternative to zincate/Alstan is phosphoric acid anodizing. If you don't have ASM's Metals Handbook, vol. 5, Surface Cleaning, Finishing, & Coating, you might want to get it.

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Msg. #2508 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 04/13/92 at 10:16:46
To: ALL From: ANNE BAIC - Activation of Co-Based Superalloy I need to make a superalloy solderable--don't laugh now, do it later. It is a cobalt based alloy with Fe, Ni, W, Mo, Ti also. This makes for a difficult situation. I am told that this type of material, with which I have practically no experience, self-passivates almost instantaneously. My only hope it to activate the surface and plate it with tin, which will maintain the surface in a solderable condition long enough to solder to it. If I plate it with anything else, the parts will be out of print, which is not acceptable. I have tried 50-75% HCl at RT for 5 minutes with mediocre results. Any suggestions? I am measuring success by plating that does not peel off and is solderable.

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Msg. #2515 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 04/15/92 at 13:28:32
To: ANNE BAIC From: TED MOONEY - Reply To 'Activation of Co-Based Superalloy'
Well, I waited a couple of days. So can I laugh now? Personally, I think you have before you an impossible task, Anne. To me the most promising idea would be to get an exception to allow a Wood's nickel strike. Even then I'm not sure. If you would like me to do a computerized literature search and leave the results here for downloading let me know. The cost is $99 and I can do it immediately. *S

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Msg. #2520 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 04/18/92 at 13:37:56
To: ANNE BAIC From: BERL STEIN - Reply To 'Activation of Co-Based Superalloy'
Anne, we are using the Ronatab PC-1 activator, available from Rona-Tec, to activate Ni and Ni-stainless steel assemblies before plating. The stuff works pretty well for us without current, but I was told that electrolytically it works even better. You may want to give it a try. I was also told that the composition is similar to the Puma nickel activator. Let me know what happens. Regards, Berl

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Msg. #2524 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 04/19/92 at 21:14:04
To: BERL STEIN From: KEN ROSENBLUM - Reply To 'Activation of Co-Based Superalloy'
USE USE A WOODS NICKEL STRIKE TO ACTIVATE STAINLESS STEEL FOR PLATING. HOWEVER, I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TEMPTED TO TRY ONE OF THE NON ELECTROLYTIC ACTIVATORS, SUCH AS THE ONE MANUFACTURED BY PUMA. MY LOCAL SUPPLIER WHO CARRIES THIS PRODUCT TELLS ME THAT NON OF THE PROPRIETARY IMMERSION ACTIVATORS ARE AS GOOD AS A WOODS NICKEL STRIKE FOR SST ACTIVATION. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE IN THIS AREA?

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Msg. #2528 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 04/19/92 at 22:30:37
To: KEN ROSENBLUM From: BERL STEIN - Reply To 'Activation of Co-Based Superalloy'
Ken, I'm sorry to say that I never tried to pitch them against each other. Sometimes we use both the Ronatab PC-1 and the Woods strike (one followed by the other), sometimes we use just the Ronatab, mostly to plate copper on steel or nickel.

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Msg. #2549 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 04/26/92 at 23:25:57
To: ANNE BAIC From: JOHN LOVIE - Reply To 'Activation of Co-Based Superalloy'
Try a tin bath based on fluoboric acid. Try fluoboric acid for activation. If the customer can afford it, there are gold baths which will plate directly on SS and may work on this material. Th usual sequence for Mo, W, Ti, etc involves HF... If you want to try something that drastic, I can fax or mail you a sequence for Mo which you could try. John

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Msg. #2696 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 07/01/92 at 20:39:26
To: ALL From: BERL STEIN - Barrel plating on Aluminum Does anyone do barrel plating on aluminum parts. If so, what is the best pre-plating cycle that will give the strongest adhesion? I seem to experience a problem with larger parts, whose zincated surface gets scratched in the zincate bath and in the rinses, resulting in tiny scratches on the nickel plated surface, which are not acceptable to our standards. Any suggestion will be appreciated. Thank you Berl

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Msg. #2698 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 07/02/92 at 00:04:55
To: BERL STEIN From: JOHN LOVIE - Reply To 'Barrel plating on Aluminum'
Zinc deposited from zinczte is very soft. Don't know any good work around, except that if the parts are that large, could you frack them?

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Msg. #2856 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 09/19/92 at 21:05:53
To: ALL From: KEN ROSENBLUM - Titanium Plating Does anyone know of a bath and a process for plating titanium onto aluminum? Thanks, Ken

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Msg. #2858 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 09/20/92 at 01:47:44
To: KEN ROSENBLUM From: TED MOONEY - Reply To 'Titanium Plating'
Pshew. I don't think so, Ken. According to Faust, titanium cannot be plated from aqueous solution, but only from fused salts in excess of 1000 degrees Fahrenheit. If that old news is still current, with the melting point of aluminum being not much over 1000 degrees, it sure sounds like a toughie. I may be wrong, but I think it can be flame sprayed, and possibly sputtered or vacuum metallized, but again that sounds problematic if the substrate is aluminum. If you have a serious inquiry from a customer, and require a literature search, let me know.

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Msg. #2920 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 10/13/92 at 22:55:06
To: ALL From: BERL STEIN - Plating on Inconel Does anyone know how to nickel plate inconel? A friend of mine is having a problem
- the Woods strike does not seem to work on his alloy. I personally never worked with Inconel. Regards, Berl

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Msg. #2921 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 10/14/92 at 08:11:38
To: BERL STEIN From: TED MOONEY - Reply To 'Plating on Inconel'
The heat resistant alloys are tough because you need aggressive chemistry to remove scale and activate them. My first guess is your friend is naturally reluctant to try nitric-hydrofluoric. But if there is any tarnish on the parts, and I'd certainly assume there is, then Wood's nickel won't get it off and must be preceded with nitric-HF.

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Msg. #3070 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 11/22/92 at 22:39:33
To: ALL From: KEN ROSENBLUM - COATING APPLICATION Does anyone know of any type of plated metal or alloy that can be plated onto copper .002" thick that is impervious to nitric acid?

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Msg. #3071 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 11/22/92 at 22:47:30
To: KEN ROSENBLUM From: TED MOONEY - Reply To 'COATING APPLICATION'
Your questions are never easy, Ken. Gold would be absolutely fine--in fact they use nitric acid in the porosity test to insure that the gold is pore-free. But that would be pretty expensive. Chrome would be too porous no matter how you plated it. You can't electroplate aluminum onto a substrate, but you can Ivadize or otherwise vapor plate, hot dip it, etc. So I'd say aluminum MAYBE, or gold definitely.

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Msg. #3082 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 11/23/92 at 12:52:27
To: KEN ROSENBLUM From: BERL STEIN - Reply To 'COATING APPLICATION'
Ken a little research produced the following answers: titanium, zirconium and ruthenium are the three plateable metals that are resistant to nitric acid. Unfortunately, two of them (Ti and Zr) can only be plated out of molten salt (fused) baths, and Zr can be plated to higher thicknesses such as you require, while Ti could not as of the time the book was written. Ru can be plated out of aqueous electrolytes, it can be plated thick and has outstanding corrosion protection properties, but, it is expensive, much less so than gold, though. You can probably even find someone who is doing it on a commercial basis, since the metal has growing applications in the nuclear power generation field. Good luck, Ken. BTW, did you get to the bottom of your muriatic acid problem? Cheers. Plater B

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Msg. #3087 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 11/27/92 at 16:58:08
To: BERL STEIN From: KEN ROSENBLUM - Reply To 'COATING APPLICATION'
BERL, Thanks for the info. About the Muriatic Acid: I haven't made any progress. I found a bath with no organics (I carbon treated it), but it still did not pickle as well as the numbers (acidity, metals) showed it should. Ken

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Msg. #3089 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 11/27/92 at 17:01:49
To: RON LANDRETTE From: KEN ROSENBLUM - Reply To 'Anodizing or Decoral Help'
Can you describe the barrel anodize process? What are the disadvantages and what parts does it lend itself to? thanks, Ken

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Msg. #3091 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 11/27/92 at 17:10:01
To: KEN ROSENBLUM From: TED MOONEY - Reply To 'Anodizing or Decoral Help'
You cannot barrel anodize in the conventional sense of parts tumbling through the barrel because of the dielectric nature of an anodized surface. You can basket plate them, and presumably some variation in a barrel, but the parts must be squished rigidly together. Therefore the disadvantage is in consistency and thickness. Usually, if the parts are dyed, the lack of thickness will be evidenced by the parts being only purple when you try to dye them black, etc.

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Msg. #3095 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 11/28/92 at 21:56:02
To: KEN ROSENBLUM From: BERL STEIN - Reply To 'COATING APPLICATION'
Puzzling... May I ask what criteria do you use to determine the pickling activity/speed? Berl

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Msg. #3100 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 11/29/92 at 20:50:32
To: BERL STEIN From: KEN ROSENBLUM - Reply To 'COATING APPLICATION'
historically, we took the operator's empiric observations at face value. They looked at the speed at which zinc was stripped and the rate at which surface rust was removed. Two months ago, to verify their observations, I cam up with an in-house test as follows: 1) Weigh a heavily zinc plated washer of known surface area. 2) Immerse washer in HCl for 1 minute. 3) Reweigh Washer. 4) Convert weight loss to gms of zinc removed/min/sq. inch of surface area. We correlated these results with the increase of zinc metal in the HCl as measured by AA and the results correlated nicely. We look at this test as our gold standard in deciding when to dump acid on a zinc plating line. On nickel chrome lines, we use removal of chrome as our indicator. Ken

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Msg. #3109 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 07/28/86 at 04:31:10
To: KEN ROSENBLUM From: JOHN LOVIE - Reply To 'COATING APPLICATION'
Gold

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Msg. #3111 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 07/28/86 at 04:35:58
To: KEN ROSENBLUM From: JOHN LOVIE - Reply To 'COATING APPLICATION'
After reading the other suggestions, I still feel that gold will be the cheapest of the possibilities listed. But tell us about the nitric
- concentrated? fuming? exposed to air at the same time? (washline?)

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Msg. #3136 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 12/02/92 at 23:57:50
To: JOHN LOVIE From: KEN ROSENBLUM - Reply To 'COATING APPLICATION'
The nitric acid is 70% carboy concentrated nitric acid and 30% water.

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Msg. #3169 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 12/07/92 at 23:49:44
To: KEN ROSENBLUM From: JOHN LOVIE - Reply To 'COATING APPLICATION' 70%
- gold it is

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Msg. #3235 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 12/24/92 at 17:09:20
To: ALL From: KEN ROSENBLUM - Plating Nickel Beryllium Does any one have a good process for activating for cad plating a heat treated nickel beryllium strip soldered to an electroless nickel plated piece of aluminum. The beryllium strip is 96% nickel and 2% beryllium. It is a bear to get good adhesion. Thanks, Ken

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Msg. #3246 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 12/30/92 at 01:02:33
To: KEN ROSENBLUM From: TED MOONEY - Reply To 'Plating Nickel Beryllium'
ASM's Metals Handbook suggests that a 2 minute soak in hot (265 F), 50 percent sodium hydroxide is the key to removing beryllium oxide before acid pickling. Sounds like a possibility. But c'mon, Pullizzi, you're lurking out there somewhere, and I bet you've already had hands-on with this one.

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Msg. #3258 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 01/01/93 at 22:30:29
To: TED MOONEY From: KEN ROSENBLUM - Reply To 'Plating Nickel Beryllium'
Ted, I would try this, but the majority of the part is e-less nickel plated aluminum. I'm afraid that any porosity in the nickel would destroy the part. Thanks, Ken

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Msg. #3259 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 01/01/93 at 22:42:52
To: KEN ROSENBLUM From: TED MOONEY - Reply To 'Plating Nickel Beryllium'
OH! I didn't realize, or didn't remember, that the part in question was made of aluminum. You're right, of course, 265 degree strong caustic will make a short lunch of that aluminum part if the E-nickel isn't flawless. The only other thing I can think of that might work to improve the adhesion is to go 30 secs with reverse current in the nickel strike. I'm assuming you're already using a Wood's nickel strike.

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Msg. #3262 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 01/03/93 at 12:29:46
To: TED MOONEY From: TOM PULLIZZI - Reply To 'Plating Nickel Beryllium'
i have not too much exp. with beryllium but what formulas I do have I put into the upload to this forum called Ni-Be plating. or at least I will do that now.-t

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Msg. #3835 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 04/21/93 at 17:07:38
To: ALL From: BILL GREULING - Leaded steel parts, alkaline zinc bath? OK, I know this is a problem that has been solved a number of times before, but I can't find the answer. We have been having a hell of a time this week with some screw machine parts out of leaded steel in our non-cyanide zinc barrels. They leaded steel just wont plate; furthermore, when we mixed mild steel stampings in the barrel, they didn't plate either. I know that hydrofluoric acid beforehand would help, but we don't have any and don't want any. Is there any other way around this mess? Thanks for your help.

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Msg. #4702 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 01/28/94 at 02:41:09
To: ALL From: TED MOONEY - Stripping Titanium Nitride (We're trying to expand the readership here, and I offered in Jan's Metal Finishing that if anybody had Internet access but not convenient modem service that I'd upload their questions to the Hotline and E-mail back any responses. Well, we're getting takers, so I'd appreciate some help if anybody has some answers). "Ted, We are looking for a way to strip titanium nitride coating from steel. Please post this question to the hotline. Thanks Brian Ramey Allison Engine Company Indianapolis,IN 317-230-4388 iebxr@agt.gmeds.com"

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Msg. #4740 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 02/03/94 at 07:33:32
To: TED MOONEY From: BERL STEIN - Reply To 'Stripping Titanium Nitride'
The only reference to TiN reactions I found in my home library is its reaction with hot KOH, leading to the formation of potassium titanate, ammonia and hydrogen. So, I guess, that reaction could be used to strip TiN from steel. Some testing will definitely be required. Plater B

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