Ed. note: before the internet existed, there was a time when "Sysops" (system operators) ran publics forums via dial-up modems and "BBS" (Bulletin Board System) software. Here is one such discussion from 1994.
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Msg. #4856 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 03/05/94 at 08:10:11
To: ALL From: PAUL PETERSON
- Plating shop computer software I would like to know what people are using for software in their plating shops. I have looked at AMARIKO's PFC software, which looks to be quite complete. I am concerned about getting software which is not flexible enough to meet my various needs. I would appreciate input from anyone.
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Msg. #4858 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 03/05/94 at 09:32:01
To: PAUL PETERSON From: TED MOONEY
- Reply To 'Plating shop computer software'
There are 5 or 6 suppliers offering shop control software. In addition to Amariko, talk to Job Shop Software, Industry Software, Varland Metal Service, and the others which are advertised. One of my clients has a fairly large Industry Software setup with about a dozen terminals. Experience of platers over the last 20 years show the biggest danger to be the supplier going out of business, losing his chief programmer--in other words leaving you with an unsupported system. Speaking personally, I don't care what the supplier says or what his reasons are, I absolutely wouldn't spend one minute or one dollar on a system which is not "open" that is, written in a commercial database language and without copy protection or dongles. If the computer system is as important to you as the supplier says it is, you certainly can't tie the viability of your business into the viability of his, can you?
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Msg. #4877 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 03/08/94 at 21:53:36
To: PAUL PETERSON From: KEN ROSENBLUM
- Reply To 'Plating shop computer software'
The only way to get software that will enable you to run your business as flexiblly as you might want is to have it custom written. This is what I do. HOWEVER, I wouldn't advise it unless you enjoy stress, high costs and unending disappointments. HOWEVER, if you doggedly pursue this course (it will take years), I think you will realize some competitive advantages over your competitors in customer service and streamlined operations.
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Msg. #4878 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 03/08/94 at 22:02:15
To: TED MOONEY From: KEN ROSENBLUM
- Reply To 'Plating shop computer software'
I don't believe there is are any "open" systems. I think that this is just a goal. Most all systems are written on top of a proprietary database or they incorporate an accounting package that was bought or they use screen generation tools that are proprietary, etc.etc. Even if you could find a package that was completely open (i.e. the programmer wrote every line of code in a low level language with no programming tools), and if he went out of business, a new programmer would spend hundreds of hours, spinning his wheels, learning the code well enough for him to support you. Also, unless you were extremely lucky and found a good programmer, you will probably go through 2 or 3 programmers until you find one who does the job for you. Unfortunately, you will pay each one lots of money before you find out that he's no good. Ken
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Msg. #4882 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 03/08/94 at 22:30:28
To: KEN ROSENBLUM From: TED MOONEY
- Reply To 'Plating shop computer software'
Well, we agree on the nature of the problem at least. We don't totally agree on what constitutes an "open" system though, so maybe I used a poor word. True, commercial databases aren't 100 percent open because the database language itself is compiled. But when a database is widely available, and supported not only by the manufacturer but through the availability of thousands of experienced programmers, instruction available in community colleges and through other training organizations, special magazines and newsletters available, and the program is cheap, off the shelf, and not copy-protected--that is open enough for me. So I think a shop control program should be written in a modern database like Paradox, FoxPro, Clipper, Filemaker, or something like that. That way your proverbial replacement programmers at least have a good start on the overall architecture and structure of the system.
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Msg. #4885 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 03/09/94 at 12:43:38
To: PAUL PETERSON From: TED MOONEY
- Reply To 'Plating shop computer software'
A pretty new development in the shop control software market is CEGAB Development Corporation's Windows-compatible CAPE++ system. Give them a call at 800/GO CEBAB. Their flyer doesn't say what application program it is written in, or how "open" it is, but I believe it is time to think about Windows instead of DOS. Multi-tasking, sounds, photographs, film strips are going to be a part of the future. Windows (and of course Macintosh) have long recognized this and built in all the necessary 'hooks'. It becomes increasingly difficult and impractical for each programmer to "roll his own" in DOS as the complexity and power skyrockets.
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Msg. #4898 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 03/12/94 at 07:59:33
To: KEN ROSENBLUM From: PAUL PETERSON
- Reply To 'Plating shop computer software'
Ken: That is my feeling too, I think the only way we will ever a program that meets every need and has th ability to do everything we are currently doing manually is to write it myself. I have been working with Microsoft's Access which has great potential. But as you stated I feel it could take me a couple years to get something working which is relatively bug free. I have looked at AMARIKO's PFC II package which seems pretty good and with time the various data files could be imported into Access if I were able to get that program developed.
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Msg. #4901 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 03/13/94 at 20:21:33
To: PAUL PETERSON From: ROBERT TEICHMANN
- Reply To 'Plating shop computer software'
I've found it very helpful to use spreadsheets to perform many repetitive calculations. Examples include surface area/plating current/time calculations, cell additions, scale up from cell additions to tank additions. If you are interested I'll upload them to the hot line so that you can try them.
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Msg. #4904 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 03/13/94 at 22:23:04
To: TED MOONEY From: KEN ROSENBLUM
- Reply To 'Plating shop computer software'
I agree with most everything you said. However, I have found that programmers who program in those high level DOS databases you mentioned
(FoxPro, clipper, Paradox, etc) to be the worst of the breed. They know some DOS, learned a little programming and have generally been working on their own for most of their career. I have found that the best programmers to be those who specialize in a few lower level languages (RPG, C, BASIC). Often, they come from data processing departments in large companies or have worked for consulting firms. In these places, they would have been weeded out if they were not good programmers. Also, there are more experienced people around who can help them improve their skills. I have met many guys who program in higherØlevel DOS databases who are very experienced (their resumes look good), but are probably little better at programming than when they were younger.
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Msg. #4905 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 03/13/94 at 22:39:51
To: PAUL PETERSON From: KEN ROSENBLUM
- Reply To 'Plating shop computer software'
Let me preface by saying that I am not really a programmer. I have done some programming in a high level DOS database called DataEase (which, next to Quicken is the easiest to use program every written), and I have spent a few hundred hours writing specifications for programmers to write from.
ØMy experience (for what its worth) is that shop programs should be written in a lower level language with programming tools. Examples would be a variety of Basic, CØ, RPG, etc. I attempted to have programs written in FoxPro, but constantly ran into limitations. I sure that Access is more limited than foxPro.ØThe limitations I found includedØuser interface flexibility, communication with peripherals (fax), routines that should start from a cron (time, date) file, multi user problems, and speed problems when files start to get bigger. I really think that programs for our type of business (transaction oriented) should be written on a multi-user platform such as UNIX or AS400.
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Msg. #4908 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 03/13/94 at 23:28:41
To: KEN ROSENBLUM From: TED MOONEY
- Reply To 'Plating shop computer software'
There is absolutely no question that Unix is more robust than DOS, Windows, or the Macintosh operating system; and that it was designed from the beginning as a multi-user operating system. But technology keeps improving so I don't think the differential is nearly as great as a few years ago. I was at a shop last week that has a Unix system (and has for over 10 years). What they do, though, is equip everybody with a PC running Windows, and one of the applications the user can switch to is a terminal emulator on the Unix system. It's a nice, powerful, approach.
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Msg. #4912 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 03/14/94 at 21:43:14
To: TED MOONEY From: KEN ROSENBLUM
- Reply To 'Plating shop computer software'
I do the same thing for secretaries and management type people. However, people who are essential to the day to day operations (i.e. order entry clerk, scheduler, inspectors), just have the shop programs they need to do their job. I don't want them spending their time with DOS "productivity enhancing" programs.
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Msg. #4921 in ** Ask Plater B**
Posted on 03/17/94 at 14:13:14
To: ALL From: RON LANDRETTE
- COMPUTER SOFTWARE I have personally done some extensive programming in basic language awhile back. Unless you are a glutton for punishment,in my opinion,you are better off finding commercially available software that can meet the day to day routine A "simple" program for quoting tanks took weeks to get up and running and to this day can still be crashed if the wrong item is selected. An inventory program that was capable of order entry removal was almost as bad and slow as the day is long. But,they are 100% customized for thier application. A good media systems specialist consultant SHOULD be able to put a package together and interlink it to meet all your needs. As someone else stated in an earlier message,finding the right person is extremely difficult.
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