Sound technical content, curated with aloha by
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Pine Beach, NJ
The authoritative public forum
for Metal Finishing since 1989
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PFOS-free Surface Tension Reducer for Chromic Anodize / Chrome Plating
Q. Hello,
I work at a processing plant as the chemist and my company is in the process of adding a few new tanks, one of which is a chromic acid anodizing tank. I have been tasked with writing the solution analysis and control procedures which include controlling the surface tension of the tank. I am currently a chemistry student and have not really dealt too much with surface tension. I was looking for some advice on which tensiometer we should look into buying, as well as the fume suppressant. Has anyone had any success with Fumetrol 21LF? It is a newer product that may still be waiting to get reviewed by Boeing. If not we were going to go with Fumetrol 140. Any help or suggestions on these products, how to test surface tension, tank control, etc would be great.
Plating shop Chemist - Baltimore, Maryland, USA
January 3, 2012
A. The Tensiometer is the most respected way to measure surface tension. But do not overlook the lesser expense "stalagmometer" - more difficult to use but much easier for beginners. When using the stalagmometer, set out the distilled water and the chromic sample the night before and let both come to the same temperature before you start counting drops the next morning. For the time being use the Boeing approved surfactants and note the slightly different acid concentrations specified when you use a surfactant.
Robert H Probert
Robert H Probert Technical Services
Garner, North Carolina
Fumetrol 140 vs. Fumetrol 21
A. Update: The Danish Ministry of the Environment authorized a study in 2011 concluding that Fumetrol 21 achieves the same results as Fumetrol 140 for hard chrome plating. I'd expect similar results for chromic acid anodizing. See "Substitution of PFOS for use in non- decorative hard chrome plating", currently available at
www2.mst.dk/udgiv/publications/2011/06/978-87-92779-10-6.pdf
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
February 2015
Multiple threads merged: please forgive chronology errors :-)
Q. I apologize if this subject has been covered already; I didn't find one searching the Q & A.
I need to find a PFOS-free surface tension reducer for chromic anodize. So far all my suppliers and searches have come up empty.
Does anyone out there know of one? I know Finishing.com doesn't like it when individual products or companies are mentioned.
Thanks in advance
Tim Hamlett, CEF
- West Palm Beach, Florida, USA
June 25, 2013
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Ed. note: If anyone finds one, it's no problem to mention it. But it is true that in the more general case we prefer generic answers when possible because offering free commercial benefit leads not only to "comment spam" but generally non-Aloha behavior :-)
Q. I'm not sure why no one is answering except for fear of breaking the "Generic Whenever Possible" request of Finishing.com.
It's understandable so if you read this and know of a product then please contact me privately.
Thanks
Tim Hamlett, CEF
- West Palm Beach, Florida, USA
July 11, 2013
Hi Tim. It may be that the readers are in the same position as you and all of your suppliers & searches, i.e., not having an answer. Privately answers leave the other readers out of the loop and adrift, so we'd prefer public ones :-)
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
July 12, 2013
A. Did you try urea?
Blake Kneedler
Feather Hollow Eng. - Stockton, California
Q. Ted,
In this instance it's a pretty fine line we have to walk here to not use brand or company names and provide enough info to track down a product. I hear what you're saying though. If I get a lead and it's the only one I can find I will post it. Or maybe the supplier will post it.
Blake,
I have not tried urea but can you be more specific?
Tim Hamlett, CEF
- West Palm Beach, Florida, USA
Thanks Tim; if you find a brand(s), please tell us. Again, we're NOT asking people to walk a razor's edge or trying to get in the way of information exchange! We're just trying to avoid the public spitting wars we've seen over high efficiency chrome plating patents, XRF machines, Iridite vs. Alodine, nitric vs. citric acid passivation, and salespeople posing as satisfied customers, etc.
There are few sales managers who can resist claiming that their product is superior to the competition's, and even fewer who will quietly bite their tongue if their competitor is publicly recommended as better than theirs :-)
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
July 17, 2013
A. Tim,
PFOS is already banned in Minnesota and there are options commercially available to buy, they are listed as fume suppressants. One supplier is in Wisconsin. I have about 3 or more on a list but due to the rules I can't post them. 2% urea can help due to the hydrotropic aspects of urea but may not be as effective as one of the patented varieties on the market. Good luck! I haven't been to Pompano or Tampa for a long time, I trust all is well with you.
Blake Kneedler
Feather Hollow Eng. - Stockton, California
July 18, 2013
A. Hi Blake. Please feel free to offer supplier names as long as we don't get into advocacy. That's when the people who were not advocated take offense and there is a race to the bottom :-)
Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
July 2013
A. Some possible options to look into:
Fumetrol 21 LF (Atotech)
Fumetrol 21 (Atotech)
Ankor Wetting Agent FF (Enthone)
Udique Wetting Agent PF2 (Enthone)
Cancel ST-45 (PRI)
FS-600 (PRI)
FS-750 (PRI)
870 S (SurTec)
870 S K4 (SurTec)
Blake Kneedler
Feather Hollow Eng. - Stockton, California
November 6, 2013
Q. Hi
Can anyone tell me the advantages of Fumetrol 21LF over Fumetrol 21, apart from the obvious low foaming.
If the low foaming is the only advantage, in what ways does it effect the emissions to justify almost double the cost of the regular Fumetrol 21? Any facts/figures that can be offered would be appreciated.
Thanks
Tech Support - Sparwood, BC, Canada
February 25, 2015
Q. Anyone have a viable replacement for Fumetrol 140 Mist Suppressant?
Carl Walden- Warner Robins, Georgia, USA
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Ed. note: Hi Carl. We appended your inquiry to a previous thread on the subject.
Thanks For all of the responses!
- Warner Robins, Georgia
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