The authoritative public forum
  for Metal Finishing since 1989
  

  -----

Making pure boron out of Borax for water fuel system

My name is Yulleg Rahardja, or I prefer that people recognize me better as Zhou Che An.
My field experience is mostly as a lonesome hobbyist that do some research of water fuel. In short my real problems is that I lack of good chemical catalyst to break down water. I'm trying using Carbon but somethings feel not to right. I need a lot of electricity to breakdown water. Recently I had heard that Boron could be produced by using fair amount of DC voltage and current easily. I also looking and found out that Boron could served as carrier for breaking down water into Hydrogen and Oxygen faster than carbon. My ultimate goal is to achieved close loop fuel cell in which mean produced Hydrogen and Oxygen from water in electrolysis chamber and form water again from both in the fuel cell chamber. However this only could be done if I could produced the Hydrogen and Oxygen with energy required 10 times smaller than overall energy that being produced either in combustion chamber or much better in the fuel cell chamber.
Best regards
Zhou Che An
PS: After this was done I had decided to make it as an open source discovery in order to save our little precious planet.

Yulleg Rahardja
hobbyist - Jakarta, DKI Jakarta, Indonesia
2007

---

First of two simultaneous responses -- 2007

What you heard (that elemental boron could be produced easily via electrolysis) is incorrect. "Easily" is the incorrect part. :)

I did a little Googling for you; I know something about aqueous borate chemistry, but little about boron in its pure form. And, I found that the electrolytic process is performed upon a melt of boric oxide, combined with a bunch of other salts that prevent non conductive deposits from forming on the electrodes.

At least, that's what I gathered from a quick Internet search. If I were really interested, I'd head off to the library.

Good luck with your project.

Dave Wichern
Consultant - The Bronx, New York
 

---

Second of two simultaneous responses --

Several problems with the mechanisms involved.

Electrolytic reduction of molten boron oxide (m.p. 450 °C) may require inert (e.g., platinum or tantalum) anodes. It isn't done commercially, so presumably more expensive than other methods. Most boron is produced by reducing the oxide using magnesium: B2O3 + 3 Mg = 2 B + 3 MgO. It requires a protective atmosphere (argon) and is exothermic, reaching a temperature of 800 °C. The boron is only ~90% pure; some impurities are removed by leaching with hot hydrochloric acid. There is also a patented process for ball milling B2O3 + Mg powders which is slower but avoids high temperatures. Alternatively, a purer boron is prepared by reducing purified boron oxide with hydrogen at high temperature.

The closed loop fuel cell as described is a perpetual motion machine [cannot be patented] in violation of thermodynamic principles. The electrolytic dissociation of water is about 75-80% efficient, and burning the hydrogen + oxygen in a fuel cell only recovers about 80-85% of the energy. Energy is also required to flow and store the gases, so figure about a 40% energy loss for one complete cycle.

Ken Vlach [deceased]
- Goleta, California
Finishing.com honored Ken for his countless carefully researched responses. He passed away May 14, 2015.
Rest in peace, Ken. Thank you for your hard work which the finishing world, and we at finishing.com, continue to benefit from.
2007