Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
- Pine Beach, NJ
The authoritative public forum
for Metal Finishing since 1989
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AMS 2404, 2405 Specs & Testing
Q. I am hoping that someone can direct me to a publication, website, etc., that will show substitutions and or equivalent specs from Mil-Spec to AMS or vice versa. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
machine company - Wichita, Kansas
2006
A. You're treading on dangerous territory. While the title of the specifications might be comparable, the processes, requirements, test methodology, sampling plans, etc. are typically quite different ...
Just take EN for example: ASTM B733 divides electroless nickel into 5 grades according to phosphorus content; AMS2405 differentiates the electroless nickel it covers by using the term "LOW PHOS" in its title and states this as those EN's with 8% or less (this certainly isn't LOW PHOS EN as we know it today!); and the MIL spec makes no mention of phos content. Also, the MIL spec requires EN to have 100 hours of corrosion resistance while AMS2404 only requires 48 hours. So, is EN per MIL-C-26074 [on DLA] or EN per AMS2404 or EN per ASTM B733 "equivalent" or "comparable" - NOT LIKELY!
I've turned your inquiry over to my Sales Engineer who will send you want you're looking for - we use an internal cheat sheet BUT we know the limitations! Tread carefully.
Milt Stevenson, Jr.
Syracuse, New York
Multiple threads merged: please forgive chronology errors :-)
Help - need info on AMS2433B spec
Q. I have a callout for AMS2433 rev. B Type 2 electroless nickel. I don't have the spec. Can someone help me? I need to know what the type 2 refers to - thickness, phos content, heat treatment?
Thanks
plating co., - Lowell, Massachusetts
2006
A. My suggestion is NO QUOTE! AMS2433 is NOT electroless nickel as most platers know it. It calls specifically for nickel-boron-THALLIUM which is a far cry from the conventional nickel phosphorus electroless nickels as called out in AMS2404 and AMS2405. Straight nickel-boron is covered by AMS2399. Most companies won't touch thallium bearing solutions - check out the health concerns associated.... From one websource: "Exposure to high levels of thallium can result in harmful health effects. Studies in people who ingested large amounts of thallium over a short time have reported vomiting, diarrhea, temporary hair loss, and effects on the nervous system, lungs, heart, liver, and kidneys. It has caused death. A study on workers exposed on the job over several years reported nervous system effects, such as numbness of fingers and toes, from breathing thallium."
Milt Stevenson, Jr.
Syracuse, New York
A. Hello Stephen!
AMS2433 rev. C is the current revision, and it says Type 1 is Nickel Thallium Boron, while Type 2 is Nickel Boron. N-T-B has 2.5 to 5.0% Boron with 2.5 to 6.0% Thallium. The Nickel Boron is 2.5 to 8.5% Boron.
There isn't a change bar next to these paragraphs, so I believe that the B revision says the same thing.
Lee Gearhart
metallurgist - E. Aurora, New York
2006
AMSC26074 vs AMS2404
Q. What is the difference between AMSC26074 vs AMS2404? They are both for Electroless nickel.
David Tobiasproduct designer - New York, New York
March 1, 2011
A. David,
You are going to have to bite the bullet and buy the specifications. Both are produced by SAE and are commercially owned specifications.
It will also do you good to read and compare the specifications, you'll learn so much more.
Aerospace - Yeovil, Somerset, UK
March 4, 2011
Testing electroless nickel plated parts
by Sha, Wu, & Keong
on AbeBooks
or Amazon
(affil links)
Q. I'm processing my 430F SS metal with the following formula
1.- Electropolish ASTM B912(-02)
2.- Chemical Passivation Treatments for Stainless Steel Parts ASTM A967(-05)
Test:
Should be Practice D copper sulphate
⇦this on
eBay or
Amazon [affil links] Test. (Page 4)
Treatments in Nitric Acid Solutions.
Nitric 1 Solution should be used per X1.1 page 6.
3.- AMS2404: Plating, Electroless Nickel
Class 2, Thermal treatment at 450 °F (232 °C) or above to harden the deposit (Page 4)
Thickness of nickel should be 0.0015 inch (0.038 mm) for iron-based alloys.
Do you know what will be the test for the Electroless nickel plated parts?
Project & Design Engineer - Chihuahua, Mexico
A. The spec you refer to has all the details in it.
Jeroen Visser- Helmond, Netherlands
August 20, 2010
A. Carlos, hi.
My old copy of AMS2404 C (Electroless Nickel Plating) states that (4.2) there are 3 classifications of tests :
4.2.1 Acceptance Tests
4.2.2 Periodic Tests
4.2.3 Preproduction Tests
- Penang, Malaysia
August 23, 2010
Q. I have a requirement to electroless nickel plate a part per AMS2404 class 2.
The hardness after heat treatment for class 2 shall be no lower than 800HK100 (773HV100)
I have a question on the hardness test force per ASTM E384. Should the force be 100 gf instead or 100 Kgf?
Would appreciate your help!
- Monroe, Ohio
October 10, 2016
A. Henry,
I would contact ASTM about that. They should be able to find the person to tell you if the standard should be followed as written or if you've discovered a typographical error.
Ray Kremer
Stellar Solutions, Inc.
McHenry, Illinois
October 25, 2016
Q. What is the basic difference between choosing an AMS2404 and ASTM B733 (High-Phos) Type-V ?
Kris Chaitanya- Kansas City, Kansas, USA
November 9, 2018
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