Sound technical content, curated with aloha by
Ted Mooney, P.E. RET
Pine Beach, NJ
The authoritative public forum
for Metal Finishing since 1989
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Flatware rust spots. Rusting in dishwasher
Quickstart of replies: Flatware may be of type 316 or the somewhat less corrosion-resistant type 304. Knife blades are never of either of the highly corrosion-resistant types of stainless steel because those types cannot be hardened to hold an edge.
Never use steel wool (only scotchbrite) because microscopic steel particles will initiate rust and it will continue. But if rusting occurs or steel wool has been used, citric acid passivation ought to be done.
Some readers think stainless interiors in the dishwasher are responsible; the editors don't think so. Perhaps the biggest factor is that dishwasher detergents are really strong these days and dishwashers use really hot water. A milder detergent or lower water temperature may help.
Q. I have 18/8 SS Flatware that is coming out of the dishwasher with rust like spots on the knives. Could this be coming from rust flakes in the dishwasher that adhere to the flatware and cause a rust like spot or is it more likely from chlorine or some other substance in the dishwashing detergent.
J.R. R [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]- Lufkin, Texas
2002
A. I can't tell you what is causing the rust but a little toothpaste and a Scotchbrite ⇦this on eBay or Amazon [affil links] pad should clean it up for you.
Heather Essary- Woodhaven, Michigan, USA
2003
A. I would give Ms. Essary's suggestion a try, but note that she said Scotchbrite. Steel wool should never be used on stainless steel as it will actually cause it to rust.
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2003
A. I read that sterling silver itself cannot oxidize, but when water evaporates it leaves behind metal deposits which themselves rust, which explains the easy removal. The magnetism mentioned earlier could hold the metal on the knife, or just the flat surface could cause water to be less likely to run off of it. Because you mentioned hard water I suspect this is the problem because hard water contains more hard metals. Try hand drying I suppose to avoid this.
Rachelle Paulsen- Baton Rouge, Louisiana
2005
A. I have Reed and Barton 18/10 Flatware. I have same problems with the rust spots/discoloration. I was told by Reed and Barton that it is from the Dishwasher Detergent because it is 'scented' and it contains 'bleach'. I am now using Walmart's non fragrance without any bleach- It is the old fashioned kind (the powder). I only have the flatware for a year. They are kindly replacing the ruined pieces. I am researching into 18/8 vs. 18/10. Hope this helps all of you.
Christine Mines- Long Branch, New Jersey
2006
A. Well, with my replacement set of 18/10 Reed and Barton Flatware same discoloration and rust spots appeared even after using the Walmart detergent as instructed by Reed and Barton. It must be the water. It must have high chlorine or some other minerals that are affecting the flatware. I had to get my flatware set replaced again for a third time. I am now hand washing all my flatware. All is fine now. I figure if it was pure silver flatware, it would have to be washed by hand anyway. I am renting, therefore, I am not going through any expenses to have the water tested, and have filter/softener installed. My recommendation is to hand wash your flatware to ensure they remain stain/spot free. Nothing really removes the stains. I followed their instructions to remove and it doesn't work. Plus, you don't want to lose the luster and shine of your flatware by using abrasives to attempt to remove them. Hope this helps.
Christine Mines [returning]- Long Branch, New Jersey
2006
Q. Well, it is October 2006 and I had to get a bunch of spoons replaced again (Reed and Barton) as they got no rust spots but discoloration/rainbowed staining on the spoon itself. This still happened even after hand washing. I contacted Reed and Barton and they sent me new spoons again. I read some of the others comments and I agree what good is it to keep calling and sending flatware if it still continues. It is great to hear from a reader who doesn't have a water problem and it still occurred with Reed and Barton. I am beginning to wonder if it is the product itself. My Mother has 18/10 flatware by Oneida and my Mother in law has another brand of 18/10 flatware from years ago and no problems with their flatware. They both put their flatware in the dishwasher. My Mother in law lives downstairs and it is the same water since I live in a two family house. I am going to be looking for a new flatware set. I will also try the Barkeepers Friend ⇦this on eBay or Amazon [affil links] like another reader suggested.
Christine Mines- Long Branch, New Jersey
2006
A. Hi Christine
One thing. Did you ever use steel wool on your silverware? Silverware is 'passivated' in the factory before shipment to ensure removal of every dot of steel it may have been exposed to during the manufacturing process. If steel wool has ever touched your silverware it must be re-passivated. Please talk to Stellar Solutions [a finishing.com supporting advertiser] about getting a small quantity of their citric acid passivation solution and instructions on how to use it.
Luck & Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
Knife blades rusting
Q. I have this same problem and would love to know what is causing it. It is only happening to the knives. Someone advised me to use baking soda [in bulk on eBay or Amazon [affil links] and that worked pretty good.
L. M. Pearsall- Macungie, Pennsylvania, USA
2005
Q. I am having the same problem. It has happened with multiple sets of good quality stainless, and with two different dishwashers. It is mostly on the knives, but shows up other places as well. I can only guess that it is a problem with the detergent or the rinsing agent. It could be the water itself (i.e. hard water) but that seems unlikely.
Will the Scotchbrite pad cause scratches on shiny stainless?
- Parker, Texas
2005
Q. Still having problems with rust especially on knives in the dishwasher. I have tried all the other listings for help with this problem, but it continues to happen with each dishwasher cycle. Has anyone solved the problem yet?
Karen WebsterHomemaker - Greenbrier, Tennessee, USA
2005
A. L.M., Jennifer, Karen,
Just as sterling silver tableware does not use silver blades because silver won't hold an edge, 18/8 stainless tableware does not use 18/8 blades either and for the same reason.
18/8 stainless (i.e., 300 series) is non-magnetic whereas 18/0 (i.e., 400 series) stainless is magnetic. See if the blades are more magnetic than the handles. Chlorine is murder on stainless of any common grade although the 18/8 is better than the 400.
Much stainless tableware is not 18/8 but 400 series and more prone to rusting. Check it with a magnet; if magnetic it's probably more prone. Some dishwasher detergent is very aggressive and hard on stainless. Maybe you can find a milder one. But stainless should be 'passivated' and once it has been scrubbed even once in its life with with steel wool it is no longer passivated. Maybe also inquire of Stellar Solutions [a finishing.com supporting advertiser] about getting a citric acid passivation solution to passivate those knife blades.
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2005
Q. One knife in a full load of flatware (Lenox 18/10) came out with some rust and black pitting spots along the length of the blade. wWhy just one knife (although I am glad it didn't happen to the others:-)?
Shawn Johnson- Lebanon, Oregon
2006
Ed. note: That one blade might have missed the 'passivation' step at the factory?
A. The rust spots started to appear on the blades of my 18/10 knives from a set of Wallace flatware which I have had for a few years and never had a problem with . I tried to think of anything that may have changed. I started using a rinse agent a few months back and this is the problem. It's lemon scented and I know that lemon is bad for knife blades!
Here's what I did-
-rubbed the rust spots with whitening toothpaste and gently rubbed with a scotchbrite pad
-use CRL on any spots the paste would not get out.
-washed then by hand until the rinse aid ran out of my washer.
I have not had a problem since.
- Boston, Massachusetts
2006
Q. PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF YOU ARE AWARE OF ANY CAUSE FOR RUST ON STAINLESS FLATWARE. I JUST BOUGHT NEW KITCHEN FLATWARE AND AFTER IT RAN THROUGH THE DISHWASHER IT HAD RUST SPOTS ALL OVER IT. PLEASE HELP.
PATRICIA G [last name deleted for privacy by Editor]HOMEMAKER - TOMS RIVER, New Jersey
2006
A. If nothing has changed but the flatware, and your old flatware doesn't rust, the flatware is no good and should be returned. If you haven't thrown the old stuff away, run it again and see if it also rusts. Good luck!
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
Q. I just purchased a set of stainless flatware 18/0. When I wash it in the dishwasher it gets little rust spots on them. Why is this happening and how can I get the spots off the flatware? Also, can I wash them in the dishwasher without getting spots on them?
Linda DiNallo- Mechanicville, New York, USA
2006
A. The number before the slash, the 18, is the percentage of chromium in the stainless. The number after the slash is the percentage of nickel. If it's 0 the stainless will be magnetic; if it's 8 or 10 the stainless will be non-magnetic. In general, the higher the number, the more resistant to rust. Still, I think Christine M is correct that chlorine (bleach) may be the principal culprit in the rusting.
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
Q. We also have stainless with the rusting knives. I know that it is not caused by chlorine in the water because we have tested well water that has only a minute trace of chlorine in it. I contacted the company and they said they will send replacements. Other emails have stated that their replacement knives are rusting! What good are replacements if they will rust!?!? They need to find the cause of the rust and send us non rusting ones!
Joe Gambacini- Madison, Connecticut, USA
2006
A. I don't encounter rusting on flatware, so I can only guess, but
1. Never use steel wool on stainless! It can cause it to rust, and the effects may last for a long time or forever.
2. Make sure there is no bleach in the detergent; bleach is murder on stainless.
3. Try a simple, basic rinse aid and see if that helps.
4. If it's made in China, my own belief is that the quality just may not be as good as you are used to.
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2006
A. I recently purchased a new set of stainless steel flatware at Macy's and it was supposed to be "quality" and "dishwasher safe." Well, I got those little rust spots on it right away. I thought it might be because I have such Hard Water in my area. So I bought a rinse aid for the dishwasher -- which is basically just a water softener. Right away, the little rust spots seemed to stop occurring. To clean the ones that already had spots; I just used a regular washcloth and some toothpaste (the kind with baking soda in it). That worked pretty good to clean up the spots. I hope this helps anyone else out there! :)
Holly Blair- Coalinga, California, U.S.A.
2006
A. I've had the same rust spotting problem and just tried Barkeepers Friend . I have All Clad cookware [affil links] and that's what is recommended to clean it, so I thought I'd try it on the flatware and... it worked!
Ellen Lucas- Scottsdale, Arizona, USA
2006
A. My mom and I discussed this one afternoon and she said it is from peanut butter. I have not tested the theory. I went on-line to see what others are saying, and it doesn't seem like anyone knows. Maybe try to not wash knives with peanut butter on them. It only happens to my knives regardless the brand name of detergent etc.
Ivy Towler- Sioux City, Iowa, USA
2006
Rust spots-spoons, knives. I am having the same problem with a set of stainless steel Cambridge flatware from JC Penney's...it wasn't cheap either. It is happening to mainly the spoons and knives. I have one spoon that hasn't spotted! We never use peanut butter, so that isn't it. We have tried some of the more expensive dishwasher powder.
consumer - Denham Springs, Louisiana
2006
A. I've been researching the rust on my various brands of flatware for 5 years. The water company has finally come to the conclusion that the spots on my knives are probably due to the combination of water pipes in our older home. When the copper pipes are intermingled with the iron pipes it seems to stir up the residue--which likes to grab on to those knives in the nice hot dishwasher. Solution ... upgrade pipes in the house! argh!
Marion Ross- Cleveland Hts, Ohio, USA
2006
Q. I purchased a set from Bed Bath and Beyond and returned them because they rust/pitted a lot (18/10 or 18/8). I replaced them with a more expensive set from Pottery Barn with was 18/10. They have done some of the same, it took longer - it has been about a year. I know not to use dishwasher detergent with lemon and I don't. But the interesting thing is that I have a medium quality Oneida set from oh, approx. 15 years ago that never did this. I still have stored for "just in case" they may be a little scratched but not rust/pitted. This is frustrating and I am wondering if the manufacturing of these flatware is just not the quality of 15+ years ago. I am getting ready to contact Pottery Barn to exchange them. I have considered washing and drying by hand.
Brenda Cunningham- Mesa, Arizona
2006
A. We have had the same rusting problems with a couple of different sets of silverware. I don't know the rating of the metal. I called Bosch (the dishwasher manufacturer) and I was told that it is not the metal rusting. I was told that it is metal from other items in the dishwasher, and sometimes metal from the washer itself. I was told that it is electrolysis. Unfortunately, I was also told that there really isn't anything that I can do about it. It is recommended (by Bosch) to flush the dishwasher once a year with new enhanced C-L-R ⇦this on eBay or Amazon [affil links] , or Iron Out ⇦this on eBay or Amazon (affil link)] . They told me to start the empty dishwasher on the scrub cycle, and add the cleaner 10 minutes after it starts. I was told to soak my silverware in a mild solution of CLR. I haven't tried it yet but I hope it works, and I hope it helps some others that are having the same issues.
Matt Barrisy- Phoenix, Arizona, USA
2006
A. I have had the same problem with the rusting on the knives. I have found that Cascade Comple ⇦[this on eBay or Amazon affil links] works the best on my flatware and causes less rust stains than when I use tablets or regular Cascade.
Andrea Thompson- Nanuet, New York
2006
Q. I have a set of Wallace 18/10 stainless in which only the knife blades are rusted and pitted, but several have been totally pitted, so that I now only wash them by hand. Like others, I have older stainless in which this same problem did happen but over a much longer period of time. I live in Chicago--no hard water here. I use Electrasol tabs and Jet Dry. Stainless manufacturers--why don't you run a few tests and tell us what is going on?
Mary Ann Fischerconsumer - Chicago
2007
Q. We live in the country and have well water. Bought a set of Oneida stainless steel flatware about a month ago - did not have any trouble with rust spots on any knife blades in the dishwasher until about ten days ago, when we had a problem with our well water due to a pipe freezing. Barkeepers Friend worked very well to clean the knife blades (not just from the Oneida flatware but from other stainless steak knives which also never had rust spots before - my guess is our water problem caused the rust spots, but I'll wash the knives by hand from now on. Odd that the rust spots are only on the knives - the forks and spoons are still perfect.
Martha Jennings- Marquette, Michigan, USA
2007
A. As mentioned earlier on, Martha, the knife blades are probably made of a different material -- a material which is capable of holding a bit of an edge, but which is more prone to rusting.
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2007
Q. I moved into a new home, new dishwasher, new flatware, well water with filter. I too had rust spot issues immediately. My pipes are 100% plastic (no copper no lead). The first flatware brand was Cambridge, brushed 18/10 from Linens -n- Things and it rusted within 2-3 washes; forks, knives and spoons. I too thought it was my water so I changed my filter after it only being in place 3 wks ( filter manufacturer suggests to change every 6 months.) Still had rust. I returned it and purchased a Wallace set, polished 18/10 and had the problem again in the second wash. I use Cascade 2 in 1 pacs (blue). Used jet dry at first then stopped and had rust either way. I am getting rust even when I fill the dishwasher in one meal, wash immediately then unload as soon as it completes the wash.
This is insane. My old cheap silverware (most obtained accidentally from restaurants in my waitressing days) has NEVER rusted in the dishwasher....dulled, yes but no rust. . This seems to be a universal issue no matter what part of the country (or city) we are in. Neither manufacturer supplied care instructions, and the boxes both said dishwasher safe, never needs polishing. I am contemplating returning the second set, but geez what an inconvenience, again! These manufacturers need to figure out the issue here. I think we need to bombard the manufacturers directly via letters, phone calls, etc. As a matter of fact, I am going to copy and paste this right now...
We should NOT have to HAND WASH our flatware
- Wiscasset, Maine
2007
A. You are right that there should be an answer, Anne, and if someone knows it we will be pleased to post it. But I personally have never had any serious rusting issues. Every once in a while maybe a little smidgen on knife blades, but that's it. And we have an assortment of both magnetic and non-magnetic stainless -- but nothing less than 5 years old -- and we use whatever dishwasher detergent is on sale. Update Jan 2008: I personally now suspect that newer flatware (almost always made in China) is in fact the main problem
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2007
Q. Hi!
I just purchased a set of 18/10 Stainless Steel Flatware and it says it's Dishwasher Safe -- but Hand Washing is recommended. What will happen to it if I do put it in the dishwasher, as I definitely do not want to hand wash it.
It also says do not clean it with any lemon detergents, does that even include Lemon Joy Dish Soap and Palmolive Lemon Dish Washer Soap?
I'd really appreciate hearing from you,
Thank you!
Lynn
Consumer - Woodinville, Washington, U.S.A
2007
Ed. note: Yes, 'no lemon detergents' means what it says :-)
Q. I just bought a Hampton Silversmith's service for 12 set which is supposed to be 18/10. I have only hand-washed it so far, being afraid to put in dishwasher, after reading the "dishwasher safe, but better to hand wash" warning on the box. When I read above that 18/10 is supposed to be non-magnetic and 18/8 magnetic, I tried a magnet against old 18/8 that I had and it was magnetic. I then tried the new 18/10 … spoon bowls were magnetic, forks were not … knife blades VERY magnetic. Interestingly enough … an odd mix of 35 year old stuff from everywhere had NO magnetic pieces (most were made in U.S. and Japan).
So are we to assume that manufacturers having them made in China (like my new Hampton's) do not adhere to industry standards? I wash the 35 year old mix of junk flatware in the dishwasher … lemon Cascade, JetDry and all … never had rust or pitting.
- lockhart, Texas
2007
A. Please read it again a little slower, Carol :-) Neither 18/8 nor 18/10 are magnetic, although it is possible for the work-hardening of forging to give them some magnetism (this may be the case with the spoons). Series 400 stainless steel (which is sometimes called 18/0 these days) is strongly magnetic just like plain steel. The blades of 18/8 and 18/10 flatware are often made of 18/0, not to save money, but because it is a better material for blades. It's the same with sterling silverware; the blades are not be made of silver because it's a bad blade material.
It would not surprise me if flatware that is made in China is low quality; it's certainly possible that the quality control just isn't there in making the alloy. But I don't know. What is not quite clear in the dozens of letters on the site is someone mixing the old flatware with the new and proving that when washed identically the new stuff rusts while the old doesn't. Do you mix the 35-year-old stuff with the new and see rust spots only on the new?
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2007
Q. I recently replaced my old dishwasher with a Bosch (stainless steel interior model). All my knives, (including those that never rusted in the old plastic interior dishwasher)are covered with pits and rust. Removal is not the problem (Barkeepers Friend works beautifully), but why should stainless that never rusted before suddenly be spotted? Could it be the stainless steel interior? I am using the same detergent and rinse agent I used before.
Marie Montange- Sun lakes, Arizona
2007
'Do you mix the 35-year-old stuff with the new and see rust spots only on the new?'
My answer here is YES!
I really believe it is shoddy quality of todays flatware. I have Mikasa (brand new) 20 year old Oneida everyday and 50 year old stainless of my moms. the brand new stuff is the stuff I have problems with...and it was WAY more expensive than my everyday Oneida. Again, only the knives, no peanut butter, brand new house, brand new dishwasher, no lemon detergent, with or without 'jet dry'....commonality here seems to be the metal itself.
We are paying quality prices for inferior products...IMO.
A very frustrating situation for sure.
- Saint Helens, Oregon
2007
This is in response to the person who wondered whether old and new flatware, washed identically, leads to different results. Well, I have an old set of relatively inexpensive Pfaltzgraff flatware, which indicates it was made in Indonesia. This old set has never rusted, and it has gone in the dishwasher constantly for over 15 years. I tried upgrading recently with a set of 18/10 flatware made by a company called Stanley Roberts (from Overstock.com). Lovely stuff, but, the new knives rusted within weeks. I got an identical replacement set, and again the knives rusted. No rust at all on the forks or spoons.
Now, we have had the same dishwasher for a couple of years. We have been using the same detergent (Cascade 2 in 1 ActionPacs with Dawn) for a long while. This is an older house, with older pipes. Some other poster here, with a brand new house, said it happened to them, so it isn't that. After the new stuff rusted, we sent it back and took out the old stuff. Still no rusting on the old flatware.
I thought perhaps the problem was that the new flatware was not a major name brand. We almost bought new Reed & Barton, but I see rusting complaints about them, and Oneida. My conclusion is - the rust cannot be explained by just the water, the dishwasher, the detergent, the pipes, etc. Maybe they contribute, but obviously the metal content of the knife blades in the new flatware is the key to the problem.
Hopefully the manufacturers will realize this and make changes. Obviously they can solve the problem, since their old stuff isn't rusting. Probably they changed the composition of the knife blades something to save money, and it has backfired. For now, I very reluctant to buy any new flatware unless the manufacturers writes "guaranteed not to rust" on the package. Simply saying "dishwasher safe," doesn't do it. Apart from losing sales, you would think they would be concerned about the reputation of their companies and their products.
- Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
2007
A. It seems that there is an important point that has been neglected, most knives are made with 18/0 and not 18/8 or 18/10. Test your knives with a magnet and closely compare the polishing to the other pieces. Also, someone mentioned inferior quality products due to inferior alloys, this could be a cause; however, most factories would only take a chance switching 18/8 for 18/10 because no one would know the difference and the quality of 18/8 vs 18/10 is virtually the same when considering everyday use products such as flatware
Timothy Kang- Bordentown, New Jersey
2007
I was surprised to find so many problems with flatware stains. Reading all the suggestions has been very interesting. My flatware is 35 years old and Made in Japan. I never had problems until recently when I moved to north Carolina. New home, plastic pipes. The knives are now acquiring rust spots on the blades, more pronounced in the serrated edges. Gotta be either the water or the detergents.
Betty HoltAirframe/Powerplant Mechanic - Waxhaw, North Carolina
2007
As someone stated, the knives seem to be the bulk of the problem in rusting compared to the other pieces. It does seem that they are made differently, especially when tested with a magnet. But what I did notice, and see if anyone else does, in my set being 18/10, the knives do not have the print of 18/10 on the blade, but only
'stainless steel', while the other pieces clearly state 18/10.
Are we to conclude that the knives are made differently, and should be handled separately from the rest?
- Lake In The Hills, Illinois
2007
Add Gorham and Lenox to the List! In an attempt to simply get rid of all the ancient mismatched flatware, bought new 18/10 Gorham. Rusted the first day. Got our money back from the store (reluctantly), bought Lenox with it. Rusted in one week - knives, forks, spoons - all of it. After having read all of the above postings, I am willing to believe this is shoddy workmanship and the result of poor quality control in the China factories. Who do we write to to complain? Our senators? Will someone please post a list? :<
buyer - Dallas, Texas
2007
A. Hi, Hollis. Buy with a credit card and don't pay for defective merchandise. When the customer service desks are piled to the rafters and beyond with returned garbage, quality might improve.
But be aware that some stores are tracking your returns and secretly giving your name to others of their ilk! Buy too much of their defective merchandise, and they'll flag you as a complainer who is not allowed to return anything. See https://web.archive.org/web/20100205092744/http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/money/shopping/shopping-tips/holiday-returns-1205/overview/
Patronize LL Bean, Lands' End, and Nordstrom who reject this concept of holding the consumer responsible for the quality of the stuff they sell. But if you shop elsewhere, look around the registers for insignia for "The Return Exchange"; if you see such a logo, do yourself the favor of never buying anything from a store who sells you defective crap and then tries to frighten you away from returning it.
If you do write to your senator, tell him/her that this invasion of privacy -- one store secretly impugning your reputation to other stores without even giving you a chance to defend yourself -- and this collusion of maintaining "blacklists" of consumers who complain -- should be an imprisonable offense :-)
The retailers CLAIM that the purpose of the system is to catch cheaters who use stuff then return it, but IN PRACTICE it allows them to profit from selling hazardous & defective merchandise and then cowing the victims away from returning it.
As for imports from China . . . with poison in the dog food, drugs in the seafood, cadmium in the children's jewelry, antifreeze in the toothpaste, lead paint in the children's toys, and counterfeit everything everywhere, be of good cheer knowing that rust on flatware can't hurt you :-)
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2007
Very interesting posts.
I purchased my flatware over 7 years ago and never had any problems with it until I moved to my new house. Now it is getting rust stains and discoloration/rainbow staining on all pieces (spoons, forks and knives).
For this reason I don't think it is the quality of the stainless steel as ours is older. Although I don't know if I were to purchased a new if my problems would be worse.
Now I am now trying to figure out what is causing it. My conclusion is it is one of the following:
-New homes water quality. I guess we could get a water test.
-New dishwasher. Our new dishwasher which we purchased as soon as we got the home has a stainless steel interior whereas dishwasher was I think plastic. We paid around $1000 for the dishwasher, so I hope this isn't the problem.
-New detergent. We have been using Electrasol 2-in-1 Tablets with Jet Dry (they gave us a 5 year supply when we purchased our new dishwasher for our house). In our previous home we used liquid formulas such as Cascade. Many of them had lemon in them or bleach, so I am not sure that is what is causing the problem for others. Although they could have changed the formulations on the detergents since then.
-Other metal items in dishwasher. At first thought it was this as I have metal mixing bowls that I thought may be rusting at the rim. I have since pulled them out, has helped a little, but still not solved the problem entirely. We have now stopped putting any metal in the dishwasher but our stainless steel.
This is a total mystery to me.
- Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
2007
I used my previous flatware daily, for 34 years, without any rust spots. I am now trying to replace it with new 18/10 flatware and have tried two different top-of-the-line brands, both of which have had rust spots on the knives....what's happening?
Sheila Heinrichhomeowner - Martinez, California
2007
I have been reading this thread with great interest as I had purchased a set of Oneida from Costco for a second home we have in Maryland and ALL the flatware started rusting within a week of being used and washed in the dishwasher. This is a new townhome in a new urbanization with completely plastic pipes. I use the same dishwasher soap/rinse I do at home in Chicago (Lemon Cascade/JetDry) where I have no problems on my very very cheap made in China flatware from ChefShop.
Differences: The townhouse in Maryland has a Maytag dishwasher with metal parts (if I remember rightly - will check on next trip) in the interior of the dishwasher whereas at home in Chicago I have a Fisher & Paykel with a completely plastic interior.
If a previous post mentioning electrolysis is correct the metal parts in the dishwasher could be causing or contributing to this in conjunction with maybe iron rich water.
Margaret Ruiz- Aurora, Illinois
2007
I too have a horrible "rust" problem with my flatware. I moved into a brand new home about 8 months ago, brand new dishwasher, purchased brand new Hampton Silversmiths flatware about 4 months ago after my old stainless steel flatware started to rust in my dishwasher.
The new flatware rusts worse than my old cheapie set! I have noticed the knives and large tablespoons rust worse than the other pieces. At times, there's a GUNK on the silverware once removed from the dishwasher... gross!
Luckily, I have the receipt and will be returning the three sets to the retailer they were purchased from. I don't feel the need to deal directly with the manufacturer since the only way to contact them is by snail mail and this is the only flatware set I own. I don't think sending my flatware off to the great unknown is in my best interest.
- Springfield, Missouri
2007
Q. What brand of dishwasher(s) are you using? I've read your stories, and mine is the same. I had Reed & Barton and had no problem when I was using my old dishwasher. We bought a new dishwasher (Bosch) and at the same time, I moved my Reed & Barton to our lake house and bought Oneida 18/10. Almost immediately did I start seeing rust spots. I'm sending the set to Oneida per their instructions. In the meantime, I bought Target brand 18/8 and used it over Thanksgiving. The set started rusting almost immediately. The set I have at the lake house (GE brand dishwasher) is still doing fine. I am learning a lot from these posts, as I have never heard not to use the new Cascade with bleach and I have also never heard not to use lemon products. My husband and I were wondering if the problem was with the Bosch. For one thing, I have never been a big Jet Dry or any rinse agent user. With Bosch, you have to keep that rinse agent reservoir full. I would be interested to know who of you having problems is also using a Bosch dishwasher...
Thanks...
- Germantown, Tennessee
2007
I have a plastic lined Maytag. Good to hear that it won't rust my flatware -- every dark cloud has a silver lining :-)
... because I've been kicking myself for two years for buying this flimsy piece of crap bearing no resemblance whatsoever to Maytags of the old days. As a young engineer, I designed manufacturing lines sold to Maytag and visited their plant in Iowa to install them; I could cry over the way today's CEOs have squandered, in a couple of years, reputations for quality that took generations of sweat to build :-(
Although I have no inside information, "trademark licensing" (more accurately called "meatball whoring"), is probably the problem with many name-brand flatware companies. Meatball whoring is the prostituting of your logo/meatball, letting it be sold and put on 3rd party garbage in exchange for money.
Trademarks used to proudly reflect generations of hard work towards continuous improvement; trademarks today are just scarlet lettered whores pointing their fingers back to the pimps who put them out on the street and the big box circuit.
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
2007
Since purchasing a Bosch dishwasher one and one half years ago, our stainless steel flatware often emerges with rust stains especially on the knife blades, but on spoons and other surfaces as well. This is high quality stainless which we have washed with other dishwashers for 46 years with no prior staining! I suspect there is something about the washer that leads to these stains. I understand that Bosch operates at a higher heat than others. Could this increased temperature in combination with chemicals in the detergent be the problem? This thread refers to many instances of such staining and a few correspondents have singled out Bosch. Other writers don't mention the names of their machines. It would help if others will identify their dishwasher brand. This might help us to narrow down the problem, for example, to Bosch. Incidentally, Bosch customer service was totally unhelpful on this staining issue.
John Zinner- Bethesda, Maryland
2007
I am in a new home, new dishwasher, second set of new silverware-the latest a Gorham set- the rust stains continue. GE is going to send me something to clean out the dishwasher. We'll see if that solves the problem. Highly doubt it. If not, I'll be returning this set as well and going back to my old Onieda set.
I tested the pieces for magnetism. All of them were slightly magnetic with knives, and spoons being very magnetic. This is 18/8 silverware. This is crazy. I echo the sentiments of many, we shouldn't have to handwash our silverware. That's why we have dishwashers!
- Dallas, Texas
2007
I've posted on this thread previously. Wanted to provide an update that I returned the Hampton Silversmiths flatware and purchased a set of Oneida. AGAIN rust spots! AGAIN more on the knives and large spoons vs. the other pieces (I have some pieces with ZERO rust spots).
Dishwasher: Whirlpool
Dishwasher detergent: Cascade gel packs (non citrus)
I never had issues with rust on my silverware in my previous home
(again, moved into my new home about 9 months ago)...
I have used the Cascade gel packs forever. My mother uses them as well and has zero problems with her flatware rusting.
I am purchasing another set this weekend, from a different retailer to see if it's possibly a supply issue?
- Springfield, Missouri
2007
We're also seeing rust spots on our knives (one set is 7 years old; the other set is 20 years old). We never had rust spots on these knives using cheap plastic interior dishwashers. We recently purchased a new high end LG stainless steel dishwasher (interior and exterior) and are now seeing rust spots. The dishwasher does not have a heater coil.
Anyone seeing rust spots using a dishwasher with a plastic interior?
- Merrimack, New Hampshire
January 27, 2008
I have Oneida Aquarius from over 14 years ago, no problems.
Recent additions to my set = Problems! Looking at the backs of the flatware, the new pieces are made in China.
I think China as manufacturer for these different flatware companies is the common element, and the cause of the problems.
Do we have any recourse other than getting replacement pieces made of the same inferior quality?
Is there any testing or standards set by the manufacturers?
- Sterling, Virginia
February 19, 2008
Rust spots and pitting on my flatware is only the beginning of my concerns with recent purchases of Oneida flatware.
Has an investigation been started by anyone into the flatware being produced in China for these major brand names (Oneida, Reed, et al)?
I do know that 'low quality' flatware produced in China for Dollar Tree stores and the like have been found to be 'leaching metals', and consumers have been warned from purchasing and using the flatware, but no recall has been issued.
My recent Oneida purchases have not only been far inferior to similar pieces from the same line (Oneida Aquarius) that I bought 14 years ago, but my son refuses to use them because he says they have a 'metallic' taste.
This really concerns me. Trace metals can build up in the body have have dire consequences.
Is there anyway to 'seal' the flatware?
buyer - Leesburg, Virginia
February 20, 2008
I found this forum, because I'm also having problems with my flatware rusting, and was thinking about getting new, better stainless. Now I wonder if that is even possible!
I did also find this information, from westernsilver.com. I wasn't aware of a need to "season" stainless before dishwashing, but I read that several people had gotten new stainless, only to have it rust immediately. Also, I wasn't thinking that the AMOUNT of detergent would have such an impact. I'm going to polish my stainless, then start using these suggestions, and see what happens.
Wash new stainless by hand for the first few weeks of use. After the stainless is seasoned in the washing process, the dishwasher can be used.
Always pre-rinse your flatware. Do not let it soak for long periods of time, extended soaking can cause water damage to the finish.
When using a dishwasher for cleaning, keep the following in mind:
*Use a mild detergent, do not use lemon scented detergent.
*Never use more than 1 level teaspoon of detergent.
*Position flatware with handles down and do not crowd.
*Use the gentle dry or energy saver dry cycle.
*Do not mix stainless, sterling and silverplate in the same wash.
The prolonged exposure on stainless of certain types of food, such as mayonnaise, eggs, salt or vinegar
⇦in bulk on
eBay
or
Amazon [affil links] can permanently stain and damage the product.
If rust appears, you are generally using too much detergent. The water bead is saturated with detergent, and through the heat cycle, the water evaporates, leaving the detergent baked on the surface in the form of fatty acids.
- Mooresville, North Carolina
February 26, 2008
I also have problems with rust spots on my Hampton Flatware and this began recently. Have no idea as to why, haven't changed a thing it just started and I've had it for several years but only used it several times. However, as it does have a life time guarantee I would like to return it to the manufacturer however, lo and behold I can't find the address for Hampton Silversmiths and even the internet can't seem to produce one. Any suggestions as to where I can obtain this?
Linda Shirleybuyer - Canada
March 25, 2008
My beautiful set of Lennox 'Mediterranean' stainless steel flatware has black-finished knife handles which are rusting and blades that are spotting. The other pieces are neither rusted nor spotted. What can I do about this? We just replaced our plastic-lined dishwasher with a stainless-steel lined model. But the problem is identical with both machines. No lemon scented detergent. We use Kirkland (Costco) brand powdered detergent.
Mayo Earnesthomemaker - Anacortes, Washington
March 29, 2008
I have a 60 year old set of Gorham sterling and it sure wasn't made in China. The knives have stainless steel blades. I never have washed the silver in a dishwasher -it's hand washed. I have not used it in years and when I pulled it our recently, the knife blades had rust spots on them -- real rough, pitted looking spots. The tarnish cleans off the silver but I can't get the rust spots off the knife blades. I'll try anything -- Bartenders Friend? Toothpaste? Thanks for any input you can give me.
Cecelia Cook- Pawleys Island, South Carolina
April 8, 2008
At least now I know I'm not the only one! I had some cheap Oneida Bancroft flatware I bought at Target when we moved into this house 15 years ago. Never rusted. I saw that on eBay , this flatware was selling for a lot of money, so I thought I'd be smart and sell it, then buy a really good quality flatware. I bought $300 Oneida at Kohl's. Guess what? Rust. After the first run through the dishwasher. Wrote to Oneida - the President of the company, no less, and no response. Returned all of it (Cost a mint to mail...) to Oneida who were happy to replace it with a brand new set. You guessed it - rust. This time returned to Kohl's who gave me the money back no problem. Bought another set of Oneida - same thing. So switched brands. Tried Cambridge. RUST! Here is the common thread: ALL WERE MADE IN CHINA! I can't seem to find ANY flatware that isn't! I think all those people on eBay already figured this out. I think I'll try to buy back my old flatware on eBay !
Loye SchulthessAtlanta, Georgia
April 18, 2008
Hi, Loye. Because I am an engineer and from industry, and I see that many companies enforce testing & quality control wherever they have their product made, I was very unwilling to accept the idea that today's stainless flatware from China is the cause of this rusting.
Further, not having any new stainless myself, I had never seen any of this reported rusting. So, as reports started coming in to this site, I initially wanted to blame the well water, or the detergent, or the dishwasher, or an off-brand of flatware, or scrubbing the stainless with steel wool, or mixing stainless with silverplate in the dishwasher. But it's become absolutely overwhelming -- we're drowning in complaints, we've published hundreds -- and it seems that much of today's stainless flatware rusts regardless of any of these other factors.
Yes, I have come to the conclusion that today's stainless steel from China rusts because it is garbage and that the flatware companies may be practicing "meatball whoring" -- licensing their logo/meatball for use on garbage. If any spokesperson for any flatware manufacturer is reading this, it's time to present to the public some sort of test results demonstrating that your company is not part of the problem :-)
But try putting only one brand (one set) of flatware in a basket at one time as I have seen reports on other sites that this has solved the problem for some people. Regards,
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
April 18, 2008
I found your thread and having the same problem sent an email to Oneida and asked them if any of their flatware sets were "Made In America". They replied stating that only their "Michelangelo" pattern is Made in the USA. I would be Very interested if anyone has this set and if they rusted also.
John Beck- Hurley, New York
April 22, 2008
I purchased Towle brand and its been rusting since day one. (That never would have happened in 1960) It's useless to clean because it comes back like a cancer. The customer service rep at the superstore online where I purchased it said his was doing the same thing and offered all the suggestions I've read here. He also said that since we in the USA cannot afford to manufacture a service for 12 for under $100.00 and China can is probably the reason we have to eat rust.
I finally got totally disgusted yesterday and emailed Towle (a division of Syratech) who are sending me a new set of something since my pattern was discontinued. They didn't even ask me to send a rusty knife back to them for proof, they only wanted the receipt. Hopefully they know better than to send me something else made in China because then I want my money back. Prior to this I had a set of Mikasa (made in Japan) that lasted beautifully for 15 years, in the same house, using the same dishwasher, using the same detergent, using the same jetdry, using the same water, eating the same peanut butter... The only difference is the made in China imprint on the knife blade which I believe is a dead giveaway.
I knew I never should have sold the old Mikasa set at the consignment shop last summer...
- Roseland, New Jersey
April 25, 2008
I've had the same set of stainless steel Oneida flatware for 10 years. Suddenly, it is beginning to come out of the dishwasher with little rust spots on it.
I've made two dishwashing changes lately... first, I moved into a different (rental) house, with a much older dishwasher than our previous apartment had. Second, I switched dishwasher soap (to an
"all natural" biodegradable brand).
Is one of these things causing the rust spots? Are they dangerous? Do I have to throw my flatware out? What can I do to remedy the situation? HELP!
Thanks,
homemaker - Tucson, Arizona
May 1, 2008
Hi, Amy. You'll see 101 opinions here about whether it's the water, the detergent, or the dishwasher to blame. So I'd certainly suggest that you go back to the old detergent, as that is something you can easily test yourself.
Good luck, and please let us know what happens if you switch back to the old detergent.
In my own estimation there is no danger at all in the rust spots, but that opinion earned me only disdain in letter 20708 :-)
Thanks!
Ted Mooney, P.E.
Striving to live Aloha
finishing.com - Pine Beach, New Jersey
May 2, 2008
I'm grateful for the opinions and information given here. I recently purchased an Oneida set and have rust spots on them. Oneida said to send the rusted pieces and they would replace them but, that would be the whole set and I don't want to pay shipping. Jc Penney said they would exchange them or give me store credit. Quality seems to be an issue with so many things now, not just flatware. Greed and outsourcing are taking its toll on all of us. I hope my husband's job isn't outsourced so I can afford new rusty flatware made in china...God bless America!
betsy smartt- caldwell Idaho
June 26, 2008
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